starter stays engaged |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Posted: July-26-2011 at 5:05pm |
It would look good next to the red Skier... Hope you get it worked out. Electrical problems can be very difficult to troubleshoot. I bet if you could get on the phone with Pete while you are in the boat with a meter he could help you find the source of the problem. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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I don't have a volt meter with me. Stupid me left home without one. I am in Minnesota now. I will try that as soon as I get home though.
Why did I know you would quickly respone!!?? Thanks Pete! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Todd,
Check to make sure the start relay is in fact de energizing for those few seconds before you mess with the ignition switch. Disconnect the cable from the relay to the starter and then get a volt reading from the wire to the relays coil when turning the key on and off. It's the small wire from the ignition switch or the "S" terminal on the switch itself. |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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New starter solenoid (on back of engine) and it still stays engaged for a few seconds.
What next....key switch? Wanna buy a boat anyone? |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Todd....if that doesn't solve your problem, or the problem persists, you may want to consider new battery cables. I know the boat is only 13yrs old, however, over time, the copper can get a green corrosion on it, if you can even see it. This corrosion will reduce voltage going to the solenoid or starter and the real problem occurs on the ground side. A weak ground is often the cause of the starter failing to disengage and this can be a result of unseen corrosion on the cable. Next time it won't crank, check the batt cable at the solenoid with a meter and see what your voltage is.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Sorry for being late on the update, but there is no update. I didn't replace the solenoid at GL. Figured I only started the boat 4 times teh whole weekend so i just left it the way it was. I got another solenoid, but it is a different design than what came on the boat originally. I am going to look at it when I get up north on vacation this weekend. They have a mandatory no wake for 5 days due to high water so I think I will have plenty of time to swap the solenoid and adjust the carb a little better.
Will post if this fixes my issue. |
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Mrusso94
Senior Member Joined: May-19-2010 Location: West Milford NJ Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Not sure if you got this squared away, but I thought I might let ya know that I just went through this with someone's mastercraft.. The starter was on its way out and was drawing way too much current which would get the solenoid hot enough to essentially weld the contactor.. we'd have to pull the battery cable each time to get it to stop.. new starter (and solenoid) solved the issue.
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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white lake marine has them as well but if you are in a hurry that wont work.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Todd,
With you being a diesel owner, I thought you knew better than shopping at Autozone!! If you ever have the problem again, disconnect the starter cable, energize the solenoid with the key (or jumper) and Ohm the contacts out. You should get a near zero reading if it's good. |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Yeah, everything looks good. Then only thing I can think of is if when we cranked on it so long to get it to fire after the new distributor, maybe we did a little damage to the solenoid? If the starter tested fine and the ignition switch is good, then it almost has to be the solenoid. I was going to take the one off my F150, but I got it at autozone. I hear we are supposed to get one from Ford. A buddy works for Ford so he is going to snag one for me tonight. I have a lot going on tonight to prepare for the trip to GL that I may just throw it in the glove box and do it up there. Yes, you are right, we look like the guys in Kind of the Hill. I think we are next to alan and dana so stop by and throw in you .02 worth of info.
Thanks man! |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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Todd, you know the guy's that will be there and if there is ANY weekend to have an issue with a boat then GL is it. Most of the motorheads will be there and a few extras gathering round like the king of the hill gang watching learning and throwing in a suggestion or two.
She'll be running like a top in no time. Surely you cleaned up all the contacts and terminals on the starting circuit with some fine sandpaper and made sure you don't have any green stuff visible. See you soon! |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Yeah, I know it was a little humor. I think that would be absolutely impossible no matter what kind of boat you would have! Like to see that happen someday. I have to pull start my tractor too often so I know how that rodeo works too.
I threw a new battery in last night and it does the same thing. No fix. I am picking up a new ford solenoid tonight. Either that or take the one off my truck and try it for the weekend. I load tested my "old" battery and it was fine. Not too worried about it. Boat starts and runs....somewhat. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Todd,
You can't "pull start" a boat with a hydraulic trans. I was tying to through a little humor into the issue! Now, I have heard that way back in the mechanical trans days it was possible but> you had to pull them REAL fast to get the prop to spin and in turn the engine!!! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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If youre really missing 800 RPM then a few degrees of timing probably wont get you there... I assume your secondaries are opening? Thats about where mine come in.
Either way we'll give it a rip this weekend- looking forward to catching up with you guys! |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Pete, that is a sore subject...pull starting it. I had to walk it on the trailer 2 weeks ago because it wouldn't idle and left me stranded. So that pull starting thing takes on a new meaning. ugh.
Changed fuel filters and put seafoam in the tank along with 15 gallons of Shell 89 and it ran great Sunday. Hell, who knows. See you in a few days! |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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I tend to agree on the battery not having any ties to the rpm's....just seems weird. Hopefully that will fix my starter issue though!
Motor runs strong out of the hole. Man it pulls now. but once you get to 4k, it feels like I don't have enough fuel or something. Alan and I have talked and wondered if my new throttle linkage may have something to do with it. I have full travel though. But it feels like it surges just a bit. Basically it gets up and rolls great, but when I am at a higher rpm, it feels like it is falling on its face. I can run it 4k for miles (ask Alan before a storm!) so I don't know if it is fuel pump or what. Really don't think so. Lets go for a quick joy ride and you can abuse it for a while. You and Alan can talk about our timing. I think we are at 34 right now and debating about going to 36. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Todd, Ive never seen a 65 with side posts... all of mine are top posts. Ive put the same one (from Walmart) in all of my boats from the Ski Tique, BFN, dad's '03 and my '90. They fill up the batt box nicely and the post location is perfect.
The GPS should tell the story on your boat, but Ill gladly go for a ride. Sometimes the tach lies! How does it "feel" by the seat of your pants? I dont think a battery would be related to any sort of underperforming issue... its out of the loop once the engine is started. |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Tim, the group 65's on our shelf have side posts. I know height was a problem for me and probably the same in your 90. But you say you used a 65 in that boat? Do you have side mounts or top?
I need you and Alan to take a "joy ride" with me at GL. I think we need to throw another 2 degrees in the time and I may have some other tweaking to do. Maybe this battery is my low RPM issue. Only getting 4000 when I should have minimum 48000. Want you to double check the DUI wiring. Let me know about that battery size. I got one that is smaller dimension, but is top load and 650 CCA. Should spin her over easily. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Todd,
See you in GL. don't worry, we can always pull start that boat!! |
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Rngadng
Newbie Joined: July-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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I had the same problem. I described in detail the sequence of "what could it be" in this post:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22397&title=electrical-problem-solenoid-sticking-82-sn The short hand answer: 1. Replaced the marine battery with an automobile battery for a Ford 351 Windsor 2. Then, with help from this Forum, was further advised that the Autozone cheap solenoids don't cut it for the boats. I went to the Ford dealership and purchased the OEM solenoid ($46 vs. $18 at Autozone); however, the starter no longer stays engaged. Starts and disengages now, just as it should. Rngadng |
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Kind regards
Ring-A-Ding |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Todd, a group 65 battery fits the batt box perfectly. Thats the size Ive put in all of my semi-modern (1978+) boats.
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Thanks! I am going to see if we have anything similar to that in the shop.
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Should be in the owners manual.
13" length, 6 3/4" width, and 8" tall (Group 43). I believe. Sorry I wont be a GL |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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What group battery would my boat take? I know it needs to be a certain dimension. If I knew of a certain group or dimension, I could go in the back and grab one tonight. I have a 93 ski.
If you can get me the dimensions, I'll buy you a beer at GL if you will be there! |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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I was reading another post and the guy had replaced the battery. One of the reasons I may start with the battery is because I am not getting the RPM's PLUS I had the same starting/dying issues. It idles a bit rough also. I am not opposed to ordering a starter relay, but with GL right around the corner, I wouldn't get it in time anyway. I can pick up a battery here at work and give it a shot this weekend. I have replaced my relay/solenoid once....7 years ago though!
I will keep that link..thanks! |
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Jones
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 249 |
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I didn't know that. You learn something new every day. |
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1979 Ski Nautique (sold)
1997 Ski Nautique 1998 Super Sport Nautique |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Also make sure that you have a starting battery and not a deep cycle marine battery. The deep cycles burn up solenoids. Common misconception about the deep cycle batts. Those are made for running trolling motors not starter motors.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Jones
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 249 |
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I had the same problem. Starter Relay
The next time it happens, tap on the relay with a wrench or something and it should stop. |
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1979 Ski Nautique (sold)
1997 Ski Nautique 1998 Super Sport Nautique |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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usually when something keeps starting after you let off the key its the solenoid. Does the key spring right back to the On position after its in start. Maybe your key is sticking.
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Got a small problem with the starter wanting to stay engaged after you start the engine. Our winter project required us to remove the starter and that is when the problem started...after we reinstalled it. I have taken the starter into a rebuild shop and they said it tested fine. I have loosened the bolts several times to try and adjust it a little bit....no better. It does kick itself out (bendix) after a few seconds with the engine running. I don't worry about it too much...but it isn't right.
We will be bringing it to GL this weekend. I am posting this just to see if there are any good recommendations and if I need to buy parts or special tools that may not be in my travel kit. Again, it starts great, but stays engaged for a few seconds. I do not have any gaskets or spacer rings between starter and engine block. Thanks! |
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