engine bogging out at 3200 |
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southwind 20
Newbie Joined: August-08-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Posted: September-13-2005 at 2:07am |
Not to be a *** **** but the Predator I pulled off the drag car works really, really nice!
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Git One ON!
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jeff
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well my boating days this year are over.
my pistons are a slappin. the good things is that a friend of mine is a mechcanic and he is willing to let me use his garage and help me out with it this winter. |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Well...I saw Jeff's problem in action today!It does look like what Skyhawkflyer is on it! After the engine ran for a few minutes...the choke plate was not opening.
I am not familar with that carb...but was wondering if the sping tention is adjustable? Also...can you convert it to an electric choke? |
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Guests
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well i think it is going to be a bit the screw holding the spring together is stripped.so i'm going to get something to get it out. ill tell ya more later.
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skyhawkflyer
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2005 Location: Zimbabwe Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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By your description, it sounds like the root of your problem, or at least a start!!! Take a picture, and soak it down with penetrating oil that creeps. You'll get it off. Patients!
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Guests
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the reason why i say it could be the spring is because its pretty loose its the kind that is screwed into the intake manifold. their is no adjustment to it.screws on and off. im not even sure if i can get it off it looks like the original? ill try to get some pics taken of it
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skyhawkflyer
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2005 Location: Zimbabwe Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Yes,
Your thermostatic spring pulls the choke open as it warms up. If the spring is defective, the choke doesn't open. If the choke doesn't fully open then the secondaries are not available at any throttle position. Post a picture of the thermostatic spring. |
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Guests
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nate
the carb number is 0437. but the original one was 2196. is there something wrong? I thought when you get another carb the numbers are suppose to match or is that just when you get a rebuild kit? anyway i've been trying to fix the problem and the stuff i've been told to do has not corrected the problem at all. i did see where the thermostatic coil spring looked a little worn would that have anything to do with my sencondaries not opening? |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Right on Skyhawkflyer!
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skyhawkflyer
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2005 Location: Zimbabwe Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Take a look at what's wrong and get it fixed!
Git R' DUN!!!!! Maybe before you take it out again you should give the engine a thorough inspection. Get a piece of paper and pencil and write down everything you find, and then fix the problems one by one. Look for loose fasteners, bolts, loose wiring/terminals. Oil leaks/fuel/water. Inspect the hoses, belts, and plug wires. Go over every square inch, and make a list. Then get R fixed. Check all of your servicing too. Engine oil and fuel, and transmission, along with battery and terminals. You'll learn a little, get a few things fixed, and have fun in the process! |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Get back on the dabnab horse and ride again!We have a month & 1/2 of usually good weather where there is less traffic!
I will make you a bet... that 62 we are getting rebuild will be on the water before you are running trouble free!You have a big head start...engine is still at the machine shop! Dinner and drinks(movie...Team America) for the winner!!!Get to work you pathectic bast__d. |
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Guests
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well my boating days are over for this year?
i tried working with the carb but still no power and bogging but now on top of it raw water pump is leaking and something is sqeeking and other noises which i hope is just the berring in the water pump instead of the motor. well thanks to everybody who tried to help but maybe next year. sad in illinois |
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nates78ski
Platinum Member Joined: January-24-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1041 |
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There a series of steps to set up a Q-j properly. These include choke pull, choke thermostat, chock unloader, accelerator pump, choke holdoff or lock, primary metering rod, secondary metering rods, secondary air or vacuum vane windup spring & of course float height and float drop. Some of these require special tools to measure properly. Most of the time you get lucky and they don't need adjustment. If you do not have a history of the boat or do you know if the carb & spare are the proper match to the engine that presents another problem. I think the right path you are on is to make sure that the choke opens all the way enabling the lock out to come off. While the engine is first started cold make sure the choke pull is opening enough. Give me the carb number or look in the rebuild instuctions for this info. When these carbs wear with age & use these adjustment are you baseline. When starting cold if the engine runs rich adjust the choke pull off just enough to get rid of that condition. Now back the lock out lever the choke will take 5-8 mins to warmup @1200-1500 rpm. If it fails to open check that it is recieving warm air from the manifold tube or if it has an electric choke the proper voltage is there. If that is OK then the tension on the secondary windup spring may be wrong. Once again look in the rebuild spec for the proper turns to tension the spring. When you find that loosen the set screw underneath the air horn @the right side of the secondary air vane and hold the adjustment screw with a small screwdriver to adjust. This all sounds a little complicated but it really is not if you understand what to adjust in which order. Check the choke stat for opening & the pull off and let use know what you find before we mess with that air vane windup spring. Good luck!!1
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skyhawkflyer
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2005 Location: Zimbabwe Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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The Q-jet locks out the secondaries until the choke is pulled 100% full open. This is an anti-backfire feature that was incorporated for a cold engine. You don't want a carburator backfire when you have a rich fuel mixture. If your choke is not getting pulled open 100% then you should never be able to open the secondaries.
I don't know much about Q-jets but I do think it was a very bad design. The floats sink, the bowls and throttle body's have plugs that typically leak. The throttle shafts are noted for huge vacuum leaks. And it's not modular in any way, shape, or form. You have to disassemble to re-jet, and adjustments are made by bending linkages. Holley made a much better carb, but Carter truly is a great design with super easy adjustability. For that reason I never took the time to learn about Q-jets anymore than what I already experienced, because I knew I wouldn't stand for that kind of monkey motion taking place on my equipment. Spend the extra $$$ for a Carter AFB (aluminum four barrel), get the electric choke model. It dials in quickly, and you'll be back out on the water in a couple of hours. |
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jeff
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located in illinois 78
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JEFF KOSTIS
Gold Member Joined: April-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 817 |
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Also an easy test to see if the secondary metering rods are delivering correct air/fuel is to tie the choke pulloff back with a piece of wire, as if the engine is idling and the pulloff is sucked in. This holds the top secondary butterflies with the metering rods shut. A test run at WOT will determine a 4-barrel issue. You will be running on just the primaries, obviously you wont get the power, but she should run good-no bogging. If it still floods on a hard takeoff (bogging and black smoke) then you need to lower the secondary metering rods. Even with the butterflies permanetly shut with the wire, you can get fuel when the secondary throttle plates open creating a vacuum up to the top butterflies and effectively sucking some fuel from those rods because they are not quite seated. This may or may not be your problem, but I know the factory Q-JET in our boat had that issue and no one could fix it. good luck!!
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Debates are good for learning. I will watch this one and see what I learn!
One thing I want to throw out there for debate...Vacuum secondaries or manual??? I am hearing two versions...I don't know the Qjet carb well at all,however I did look at Jeff's(who started the post) and it certainly looks to be a manual pull on the secondaries. Nates78ski...agree..what ever goes on(holley, qjet or edelbrock)will usually require adustment...the carb on the boat is new and he has a spare rebuilt carb in the garage...I don't think he needs to spend more cash,but just wants to understand the carb and learn how to make the adjustments! Hopefully you guy's that have knowledge of the Qjet get get on the same page and and help solve that poor pathetic bast--ds issue!I can call him that...he's a friend |
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JEFF KOSTIS
Gold Member Joined: April-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 817 |
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79nautique, im not a guy to argue, but I do like debates on a civil level. You are right about the choke pulloff rod going to the primary side and connecting the choke lever. But from there is a cam which wont allow the 4 barrels to open unless the bi-metal choke spring is hot, opening the choke plate fully. The other linkage that goes to the top of the 4 barrel secondary plates is tied to the pulloff rod. 79nautique, try holding in the choke pulloff in with a piece of wire and the 4 barrels will never open. By the way, the rochester on the boat is a 1974.
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jeff
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looked at motor a little more today and i believe it is my secondaries not opening. they would not open even when i had full throttle. oh well ill probally get when i get my next day off work
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captan1
Senior Member Joined: June-02-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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Oh.... you'll have to let us all know how this goes.
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nates78ski
Platinum Member Joined: January-24-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1041 |
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30 years of repairing ignorant wanabee mechanics screw ups have allowed me to earn good living. If you own a Qj, holley or an Edelbrock they have all a have to set up properly. All carbs do wear out with use. I suggest you take this carb to a reputable mechanic to check it on a bench. You may have to drop $300.00 on a new unit and if you do buy the Edelbrock. Easy to adjust & very turn key.Where you located in indiana.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Now I have two Jack aces, obviuosly you don't like Q-jets, maybe it's because you don't know how to adjust them correctly. Maybe it's because you don't know that the choke pull off is connected to the primary barrels and not secondaries, maybe its that you don't know that most Q-jets have atleast two vaccum diaphrams and only one of them is the choke pull off. With any carb you have to fine tune it on the motor while running and no not always do you set it to factory specs. Mechanic's 101, maybe we need a carb's for dumby's manual. I looked at where you guys are located and it's about 4-5 hours away. I'm in Syracuse, IN so I'll have to map it out a little more and get back with you. I may have some free time next Thursday before the big week-end, Friday I'm going to the NHRA U.S. natioanals, in Indy. |
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skyhawkflyer
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2005 Location: Zimbabwe Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Do you have a wedge plate? Everything revolves around wedge plates. My .02 worth....
From all my Q-jet experience, (and Holley) I'd rip the thing off your intake and throw it out on the dirt driveway. They are a constant headache. Put on an Edelbrock marine. They are simple to adjust and easy to rebuild when it comes time. Or better yet, convert to throttle body fuel injection. The money will be well spent. |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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79nautique...if the travel is not too far and Jeff takes you up on your most generous offer...I too will contibute to the beer...food too! I live about ten minutes from Jeff !The welcome mat is always out to members of this way cool site!
Where do you live? One state east perhaps? |
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jeff
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well im going to check a few things. i think everything is good on my timming.? i still think its my secondaries not opening i'll know for sure tomorrow because ill be able to go down to the dock during the day
what kind of beer do you want? |
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JEFF KOSTIS
Gold Member Joined: April-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 817 |
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Nates 78ski is somewhat correct. The choke pulloff is the vacuum secondaries for the rochester. They have done this forever on the quadratoilets. The pulloff allows the secondaris to open when there is little vacuum (WOT) and allows it to open gradually. It has nothing to do with richening the mixture. If you wire the pulloff in, the secondaries will never work and you have a 2 barrel only carb. 79 nautique seems a bit hostile toward this.
The thing nice about adjusting the secondary rods on engine versus setting it to spec on the bench is that you can fine tune the mixture to compensate for the angle of the engine. The rear cylinders always get too much fuel, while the fronts dont get enough. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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nates78ski
dude you are so full of crap I have never seen a Q-jet that has vaccum secondaries they are mechanical. The choke pull off is for the choke not secondaries. please not confuss the guy with incorrect information. Jeff screw in the idle mixture screws all of the way using light pressure and stop when they stop do not torque on the screws otherwise you'll damage them. Once they are fully closed back them off 1.5 turns and then reset the timing. An easy way to see if the harmonic balancer is slipped is to bring the #1 cylinder up to top dead center then look to see that the zero mark on the balancer matches the zero mark on the timing ear mounted to the block. If it doesn't then you need to replace the harmonic balancer. I'll look and see how far Decatur is from here and if it's not to far and you buy the beer I'll get you fixed up in no time. Q-jets are a little harder to adjust correctly but once they are they stay that way for a long time, holley's are easier but you have to re-adjust them regularly |
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nates78ski
Platinum Member Joined: January-24-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1041 |
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The facts are all these secondaries work by vacuum or lack there of. The choke pull holds off the secondary air vane to richen the mixture as the secondaries open. This allows smooth transition because the secondaries have no accelerator pump. The secondaries are locked closed until the choke stat is fully warmed up when a lever on the lower right side of the carb moves enough to allow operation. I would advise you to have an carb expert set this carb to spec on a bench and then reinstall it to start the tweeking process. Also look at the mechanical advance system in the distributor for proper function.An engine should start eaiser a the lower timing setting.If this is a small block chevy it is also possible that the harmonic balancer has slipped causing causing false timing readings. You need to check this. Good luck
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jeff
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I bet the whole problem is happening just because I am GAY!
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I bet the whole problem is happening just because I am GAY!
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