I need new heads for 351W

JIH, not roller lifters/cam, but roller rockers with the pedestal bearing and roller tip in them to reduce friction while rotating. Ford Racing has roller tips with the roller bearing. Some cheaper versions have the same metal stamped pressed rocker with only a roller tip.

The HP gain was 10-15 HP in the 2000 to 4000 RPM range. Since (on the boat) I was working the heads over to larger valves and mild porting I thought it would be another good add since I had seen them work in a 351 on the Dyno. With the Roller Lifter/Cam and premium Roller Rockers I think 25 HP is a pretty accurate estimate.

We slalom ski a lot and at 3200 to 3600 RPM running down the lake for hours on end IMHO this is very hard on an engine thus the roller rockers. If you need to run greater piston to cylinder wall clearance due to heavy loads like truck engines etc then again, I was focused on the application and tried every trick in the book to make the little 289 run harder. Right after break-in we ran 4 tanks of gas per day for a week trying to make it around all 6 balls. SOme of the guy's are pretty big and that 289 never lost rpm, but she did very throaty on the Pull Outs.

I also recall you saying you lost a little compression with your new heads. If you can't run a thinner gasket to increase compression, you may get the performance back by adding roller rockers with a little more ratio/valve lift since you probably have plenty of valve clearance. Call Ford Racing and they can maybe help.

Good Luck

Joe...great heads...big valves...notice they almost touch.

I've been on the Dyno (very expensive exercise but a great learning experience) and the roller rockers with the bearings add HP/Torque from top to bottom....not 25 HP as advertised but close enough. I bought mine from Ford Racing. JIH is right, if it makes it more fun then buy them!

I have Edelbrock tall valve covers with Holman Moody exhaust. Fits good. If JIH got 5 HP from a chrome distributor there's no telling how much HP I got from those shiny valve covers.

They claim better horsepower due to lower friction and all that, maybe. They claim to be easier on the valves, push rods, and cam lobes, probably. They are more stable at high rpms which I plan to never reach (unless you get really heavy roller rockers then combined with heavy valves your your going to actually increase the chance of valve float). All I know is I like the concept, there seems something archaic about rocker arms that have to wobble back and forth billions of times (alright I did the math it was like only like 3 million wobbles last summer) having nothing but a ball and cup joint (albiet a well lubricated one) to work with. I am a big fan of bearings, I like the concept I am going to give them a try, even though it is possibly a case of more money than brains. Oh and I found a set of slightly used (owner had them on long enough to dyno them and a set of 1.7s and decided to keep the 1.7s) scorpion adjustable pedestal mount roller rockers that my machine shop is selling me for 80 dollars which is just plain cheap. Nice to be doing this in the off season this time so I can hunt for deals and not pay overnight shipping charges on everything.
Btw, these are the heads that I went with Tristate Cylinder heads. They also were recommended by my local machine shop, I will let you know when the heads arrive how they look.
    Jim, I am very interested on your new prop results can't wait to read them...
-Joe.

Keep in mind that my Interceptor, with GT40P heads, is a 1968 vintage 289. I do not know if the 351 manifolds will interfer with the GT40P heads.

Joe, imho, roller rockers are really only usefull when extreme high RPMs require very high valve spring pressures to keep the lifters from floating. High spring pressures will wipe the cam lobe hence the need of roller rockers. I doubt that your RPMs in boat will ever get much over 5K so standard valve springs should be adaquate and therefore no need for roller rockers. Spend your money in another direction (imho).

Am I having a deja vue here?

BTW, I finally pulled my boat out of the water just long enough to install my new ACME 540. Interesting results. I start a new thread.

A lot of topics on GT40 heads P or no P.
Not only here but also other forums.
Which will fit on what.
On early type CC
and on type 2001 CC before 1990
and on after 1990 type CCSN 196.
Above mentioned have different styled exhaust manifolds as far I have read and seen pictured.
The story is plugs will hit the manifold, is it just a story or will it hit.

I have a 1991 CCSN 196 with a 351W as time comes upgrade should be nice. Cannot afford to buy those that will not fit.

Should be nice to figure it out and put it in the review section as official.

JoeinNY, are your new gt40-P's machined for rocker studs (adjustable) or are they still set up for the pedestal mount rockers (non-adjustable)?

When I rebuilt my engine I had the heads cut for bigger valves, ported and installed new springs and retainers, but I did not have them machined for rocker studs. I still chose to use roller rockers but for pedestal mounts the selection is pretty slim. I chose Ford Racing Performance Parts and I am using the following Ford Racing Valve Covers. These valve covers say they don't work with roller rockers but mine fit fine. I think, but I'm not positive that standard valve covers will work with pedestal mount rockers but not stud mount rockers.

Now for some advice. Since your heads have been machined and you're putting them on an old engine if they haven't been already I would have them machined for rocker studs so you have adjustable valvetrain. With a modified engine it is very difficult to get the proper geometry and lifter preload with non-adjustable rockers. I ended up having to measure the needed pushrod length individually and then shim a few pedestals to get all of the rockers in an acceptable window for pushrod length. I then had to order custom length pushrods. I'm only talking a few thousandths of an inch but in valvetrain it makes a difference. If I would have had adjustable rockers I wouldn't have had to go through any of that trouble. Either way a pushrod length checker is a cheap and necessary tool.

Sorry for the long post

Alright so I found a set of gt40p's with a 5 angle valve job, new springs, new stainless valves (slightly larger than stock) basically all ready to go for 500 so off I go (anyone need a set of 1978 302 heads, they have about half a season on them since being rebuilt and I will sell them very very cheap). Anyway now that I am getting in there again, I am starting to think roller rockers, anyone using anything they would recommend and if so what valve covers are you using. I am a little worried that I would drop the money for the rollers and then not be able to find a valve cover that would clear both them and the exhause logs. The cheapie chrome valve covers I have on now specifically state they will not clear rollers. Any suggestions?
-Joe.

Thanks ReidP

Jim, the Keith Black KB116 pistons Joe referenced are the exact ones I've been running for about 5 years now in our 69 blue Mustang 302. They are a domed piston and with the good 60cc D0OE heads which '79 suggested, and which I'm using, they're supposed to yield about a 10.5:1 C.R. according to the Ford Tech Line, with a 302 stroke. Some may feel this to be a bit high, but mine's been bullet proof for some 300 hrs. I'm also using that same cam you mentioned along with the Barr Marine aluminum 3" exhausts, gasket-matched to the ported heads. The holeshot of this boat simple a rush.

These KB116 pistons with the 58cc GT40P heads (I believe Ps are 58 and std GT40s are 60cc, right Joe?) might have you somewhere close to 10.5 with a 289 or 11.0 with a 302 based off the application specs in the PAW parts catalog. It also mentioned that these pistons with the small 54cc 289 factory heads, will need mods done to the piston or head for clearance.

We are putting together a new engine right now with these pistons and World/Roush 180 58cc iron heads which have just been ported, after reading that the factory flow specs were sub-par to the 40s on the intake side, even with bigger 1.94 vs 1.84 valves. I'll let you know how it runs unless it ends up in infinium like so many other of our projects.

As for the GT40 heads on Alan's '81, I believe that to be the best example of where you'll see the largest power gain with the GT40 heads. That vintage 351, if indeed it has the small spark plug (5/8") heads, is basically a 302 head with the smallest valves (1.78" intake) combined with the largest chamber (+/- 69cc). You could pick up in the neighborhood of 2 full points of torque-building compression, whereas you sometimes loose a tad bit as Jim did, as he ended up with a slightly larger chamber than stock. Just make sure it's not too much compression, but Vince I'm sure has seen this combo numerous times.   

Jim,
Sorry for the confusion... I can get used ones from the wrecker for 300 for the pair including valves springs etc, they have 35000 miles on them. If I go that route I would probably put on new springs, stainless valves, light machining, and replace the steel plugs with bronze ones. The ones from autozone are 350 each for completely reconditioned heads with all springs and valves included, they are actually 250 but they have a 100 dollar core charge... if I bought those I would just install them and run them as is... I am leaning towards getting the used ones... stainless valves would set me back about 200 incidentals will probably put the whole thing at 600 dollars installed and done right... not too bad. It would cost 695 a side for the GT40's from skidim and the GT40ps flow a little better and have a smaller and more efficient combustion chamber. Sure the boat already runs perfect, tops out about 46, sounds awesome, and has easily pulled big three slalom skiers up at once but it can always run better right?
-Joe.

Jim,
    I think you should check out the Keith Black KB116 pistons, maybe a little extreme but I am guessing you would end up about 10 to 1 with them and your current setup. Summit has them at about 220 a set. They are hypereutectic cast pistions which are IMHO the best way to go for boat engine. They are lighter and cheaper than forged and more thermally stable so they won't expand as much reducing the chance of scuffing. If you dropped them in your block you would probably gain enough clyinder wall clearence with a little honing to drop them in without any such worries. I found a set of GT40p's at a wrecker down the road for 300, autozone has them rebuilt for 350 a piece, I think I will pick up the ones from the wrecker and find some stainless valves and do a rebuild on them...
Alan,
    I would think that you would see improvements with the GT-40 bolt on.. I see no reason to doubt Vince on it...

Joe, I'll be waiting to see how you like the GT-40Ps.

Joe, the pistons are 289 original flat top.

Rover
I believe there are a set of DOOE heads on ebay right now and they would be perfect for a 351W most hot roders use these heads over gt-40 if you can get them.

Thanks for the great responses....
My heads have many cracks between valves due to over heating.
Everyone has been very helpful here, glad I found it. This is one of a few SN we plan to restore in the near future.
Thanks again
david