GT40 |
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wetskier2000
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2005 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Posted: March-01-2020 at 11:16am |
I see the first post says "solved" but I don't see the resolution in this thread..... What was the root cause? I have the same symptoms on a 1997 GT40. thanks
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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I really need to make a friend with a known good ecm to rule it out.
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Sorry I typed wrong I had replaced both relays on the back not the ecm. I am just so skeptical about it being an exam because of the way the problem arises. I'm going to try a regulator. I may take the boat to someone after this. The cheapest I found an ecm
for was 675. |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Confirms that it is a over rich or flooded fuel issue. If it passed the fuel pressure leak down test and you have replaced the injectors that rules them out. It could be the fuel pressure regulator but that should have also shown up in the leak down test. It maybe somewhat intermittent causing false assumptions. Just because you replaced the ECM 12 months ago does not mean it can not have a new problem. But I hope that is not the case. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Lewy the boat did start with the tps off and WOT. I discovered this weekend with the FPR hose off the boat fired no matter what. It was odd i fired the boat with the hose off then put the hose back on and it chugged like it would barely run until it finally smoothed out. There is no evidence of fuel in the hose but it did smell terrible of fuel. I am thinking the problem is in the fuel system here wether a pump or regulator I am not sure yet. I did apply vac to the regulator and it did hold.
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skfitz
Senior Member Joined: October-15-2009 Location: Herculaneum Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Sounds like your injunction pulsewidths are too large during hot cranking. Not sure how you'd confirm or fix that on a stock Ford system though.
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Lewy I have but I forgot to post the result and dont want to say what it did and did not do I will post back here soon with the results probably wont be out at the lake till this weekend but I want to say YES it did still start at WOT.
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Andrew have you had a chance to try this yet? |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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I replaced the injectors
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Sounds like leaky injector(s) to me
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Replaced the ect but also measured resistance before and it was good. For the $10 the sensor costs
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I remember you said you tested the coolant temp sensor, but how did you test it?
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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As of now I am pretty much shooting in the dark here and using this post to keep track of the zillion things I have done.
Condition: Boat fires right up pulling off the trailer. Drive short distance say 100 yards to the dock park the boat come back in about an hour sometimes boat will start and die others boat does not even fire it seems. After some extended cranking plugs are wet. After no start must WOT to get boat to fire then runs good until next long shutdown. I am currently throwing out the overnight cause because it does not seem to offer anything. Seems after first fire then shutdown is the real issue. Tested/Replaced: Fuel Pressue:40psi cranking Map Sensor Fuel Injectors IAC Valve ECT Sensor Ignition Coil Distributor Cap/Rotor Plugs and wires are around 1-2 years old with maybe low runtime.(Have a new set on the way) TFI Module ECM and F/P relays are only 1 year old. Have Injector Pulse while cranking. Have Spark while cranking. |
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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....blah
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Thank you everyone for your help especially Lewy. Even though I never physically could catch my injectors acting up I replaced them anyways just out of a good suspicion after i drove the boat 15 feet shut it off came down a hour later and needed to wot to get it to fire. Seems faulty injectors were my culprit.
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Planet Nautique has a few later wiring diagrams that we don't have, but I haven't seen any real good knowledge on those keypads. Although, there has been a couple threads on them.
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Well back again I've searched a few times and cannot find the info I'm looking for. Does anyone have wiring diagrams or a repair manual for the actual boat and not the engine. Vince from skidim advised me to check out my keypad and I'm not sure how it works but I'd like to test it.
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Well no codes :( I did find today my primary coil measured in at 1ohm during the no start condition and range is .38-.42 ohms. Possible weak spark on startup then secondary takes over once running? I'm not sure how the ignition system works yet. Guess we will see what happens.
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Ok I'll have to order that. My thoughts were also the variables. Like how much water is in the coolant passages when I pull the boat. I really leaning far away from a fuel issue but the gas in the tank is another thing that is moved a lot, I know very unlikely but could it be a vapor issue. The vent in the tank seems clear as I blew into it. The whole pulling the boat deal is what throws me the most. I'd hate to take it somewhere because they will more then likely throw parts at it and cost me money. I can throw parts myself but at least I can return them.
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Andrew,
Leaving the boat in the water overnight is a real curve ball. What is different moisture under engine cover, colder, .......? Try the TPS removal and see what happens. I would also purchase the Eqqus Ford EEC1V Code reader it is inexpensive and may help if it has any stored error codes or sensor failures. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Lewy I posted the garage info a few posts up. Things that make thr condition happen. Leaving the boat in overnight, running for 5-10 minutes come back down boat is not gunna fire unless wot. If im sitting with friends for a few hours wot ok first start. The odd thing like I said is if I pul the boat and put it back in the next morning first startup would not be an issue. Thanks for all the help you have been giving.
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Are you saying it is different if the boat stays in the water overnight compared to pulled and put on trailer for the evening??? I was understanding that you only needed WOT after the engine had run and then allowed to heat soak with engine cover closed for 20-30 mins. If it requires WOT next morning on a cold engine then that is something different to previous described symptoms. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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And ecm heatsoak doesn't make sense to me. If I were to pull the boat every night it would start every morning without an issue. When I leave it in the water overnight wot is a must in the morning.
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Ahh thanks that's a good plan I am also going to check the air charge temp sensor. Which has the same job as the ect also. Ima be out of town for work but ill update this weekend and hopefully have an answer.
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Andrew, I would remove the TPS from throttle body but still electrically connected and see if it is actually having the throttle butterfly open that is helping the restart (correcting an over rich condition). Not the different resistance from the TPS at WOT that is allowing engine to start.
It may be a ECM heatsoak problem but I hope not. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Ok guys so far thanks to my great friends at auto zone who let me return parts. I have swapped a new tps, new iac, new map. Still the same issue after boat sits will only fire at wot. Today it seemed to stumble on first start not at wot like it wanted to fire but just didn't have enough of something. Then wot I went and fired right up.
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AndrewB
Newbie Joined: August-12-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Ect sensor checked ok after going a few more pages found out those resistances should be in Kilo ohms and not ohm.
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Easy way to prove that theory Brian break out the multimeter and measure the resistance of ECT when cold and after reaching operating temperature.
From my understanding when the engine is in cranking mode it does not read info from the TPS the mixture is controlled by the cranking map that is between 2:1 and 12:1 (air to fuel) depending on engine temp from ECT sensor. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Why the Coolant Temp Sensor you ask?
When this sensor isn't working, the ECU has to assume the engine is cold and makes a richer fuel mixture, kind of like a choke. When the engine is actually cold, this assumption is correct and it starts fine. When the engine is warm, this assumption is NOT correct, and the engine won't start. However, when you give it WOT it overrides the enrichning mode and goes into the flood clearing/less fuel mode which allows it to start. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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