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wetskier2000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GT40
    Posted: March-01-2020 at 11:16am
I see the first post says "solved" but I don't see the resolution in this thread..... What was the root cause? I have the same symptoms on a 1997 GT40. thanks
Current: 1997 Nautique

Previous: 1987 Nautique

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AndrewB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2013 at 12:30am
I really need to make a friend with a known good ecm to rule it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2013 at 12:29am
Sorry I typed wrong I had replaced both relays on the back not the ecm. I am just so skeptical about it being an exam because of the way the problem arises. I'm going to try a regulator. I may take the boat to someone after this. The cheapest I found an ecm
for was 675.
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lewy2001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2013 at 12:09am
Originally posted by AndrewB AndrewB wrote:

Lewy the boat did start with the tps off and WOT.


Confirms that it is a over rich or flooded fuel issue. If it passed the fuel pressure leak down test and you have replaced the injectors that rules them out. It could be the fuel pressure regulator but that should have also shown up in the leak down test. It maybe somewhat intermittent causing false assumptions.

Just because you replaced the ECM 12 months ago does not mean it can not have a new problem. But I hope that is not the case.
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AndrewB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-07-2013 at 8:05pm
Lewy the boat did start with the tps off and WOT. I discovered this weekend with the FPR hose off the boat fired no matter what. It was odd i fired the boat with the hose off then put the hose back on and it chugged like it would barely run until it finally smoothed out. There is no evidence of fuel in the hose but it did smell terrible of fuel. I am thinking the problem is in the fuel system here wether a pump or regulator I am not sure yet. I did apply vac to the regulator and it did hold.
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skfitz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skfitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-06-2013 at 2:04am
Sounds like your injunction pulsewidths are too large during hot cranking. Not sure how you'd confirm or fix that on a stock Ford system though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2013 at 10:07pm
Lewy I have but I forgot to post the result and dont want to say what it did and did not do I will post back here soon with the results probably wont be out at the lake till this weekend but I want to say YES it did still start at WOT.
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lewy2001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2013 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

Andrew, I would remove the TPS from throttle body but still electrically connected and see if it is actually having the throttle butterfly open that is helping the restart (correcting an over rich condition). Not the different resistance from the TPS at WOT that is allowing engine to start.


Andrew have you had a chance to try this yet?
If you're going through hell, keep going

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AndrewB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2013 at 12:32pm
I replaced the injectors
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JoeinNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2013 at 12:15pm
Sounds like leaky injector(s) to me
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AndrewB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2013 at 12:01pm
Replaced the ect but also measured resistance before and it was good. For the $10 the sensor costs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2013 at 11:29am
I remember you said you tested the coolant temp sensor, but how did you test it?
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AndrewB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2013 at 12:51am
As of now I am pretty much shooting in the dark here and using this post to keep track of the zillion things I have done.

Condition:
Boat fires right up pulling off the trailer. Drive short distance say 100 yards to the dock park the boat come back in about an hour sometimes boat will start and die others boat does not even fire it seems. After some extended cranking plugs are wet. After no start must WOT to get boat to fire then runs good until next long shutdown. I am currently throwing out the overnight cause because it does not seem to offer anything. Seems after first fire then shutdown is the real issue.

Tested/Replaced:
Fuel Pressue:40psi cranking
Map Sensor
Fuel Injectors
IAC Valve
ECT Sensor
Ignition Coil
Distributor
Cap/Rotor
Plugs and wires are around 1-2 years old with maybe low runtime.(Have a new set on the way)
TFI Module
ECM and F/P relays are only 1 year old.
Have Injector Pulse while cranking.
Have Spark while cranking.
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AndrewB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-16-2013 at 2:36pm
....blah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2013 at 12:59am
Thank you everyone for your help especially Lewy. Even though I never physically could catch my injectors acting up I replaced them anyways just out of a good suspicion after i drove the boat 15 feet shut it off came down a hour later and needed to wot to get it to fire. Seems faulty injectors were my culprit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2013 at 6:41pm
Planet Nautique has a few later wiring diagrams that we don't have, but I haven't seen any real good knowledge on those keypads. Although, there has been a couple threads on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2013 at 4:12pm
Well back again I've searched a few times and cannot find the info I'm looking for. Does anyone have wiring diagrams or a repair manual for the actual boat and not the engine. Vince from skidim advised me to check out my keypad and I'm not sure how it works but I'd like to test it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2013 at 9:15pm
Well no codes :( I did find today my primary coil measured in at 1ohm during the no start condition and range is .38-.42 ohms. Possible weak spark on startup then secondary takes over once running? I'm not sure how the ignition system works yet. Guess we will see what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 10:28am
Ok I'll have to order that. My thoughts were also the variables. Like how much water is in the coolant passages when I pull the boat. I really leaning far away from a fuel issue but the gas in the tank is another thing that is moved a lot, I know very unlikely but could it be a vapor issue. The vent in the tank seems clear as I blew into it. The whole pulling the boat deal is what throws me the most. I'd hate to take it somewhere because they will more then likely throw parts at it and cost me money. I can throw parts myself but at least I can return them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 9:02am
Andrew,

Leaving the boat in the water overnight is a real curve ball.

What is different moisture under engine cover, colder, .......?

Try the TPS removal and see what happens.

I would also purchase the Eqqus Ford EEC1V Code reader it is inexpensive and may help if it has any stored error codes or sensor failures.
If you're going through hell, keep going

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 8:45am
Lewy I posted the garage info a few posts up. Things that make thr condition happen. Leaving the boat in overnight, running for 5-10 minutes come back down boat is not gunna fire unless wot. If im sitting with friends for a few hours wot ok first start. The odd thing like I said is if I pul the boat and put it back in the next morning first startup would not be an issue. Thanks for all the help you have been giving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 3:50am
Originally posted by AndrewB AndrewB wrote:

And ecm heatsoak doesn't make sense to me. If I were to pull the boat every night it would start every morning without an issue. When I leave it in the water overnight wot is a must in the morning.


Are you saying it is different if the boat stays in the water overnight compared to pulled and put on trailer for the evening???

I was understanding that you only needed WOT after the engine had run and then allowed to heat soak with engine cover closed for 20-30 mins.

If it requires WOT next morning on a cold engine then that is something different to previous described symptoms.
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AndrewB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 2:21am
And ecm heatsoak doesn't make sense to me. If I were to pull the boat every night it would start every morning without an issue. When I leave it in the water overnight wot is a must in the morning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 2:18am
Ahh thanks that's a good plan I am also going to check the air charge temp sensor. Which has the same job as the ect also. Ima be out of town for work but ill update this weekend and hopefully have an answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 1:42am
Andrew, I would remove the TPS from throttle body but still electrically connected and see if it is actually having the throttle butterfly open that is helping the restart (correcting an over rich condition). Not the different resistance from the TPS at WOT that is allowing engine to start.

It may be a ECM heatsoak problem but I hope not.
If you're going through hell, keep going

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2013 at 10:39pm
Ok guys so far thanks to my great friends at auto zone who let me return parts. I have swapped a new tps, new iac, new map. Still the same issue after boat sits will only fire at wot. Today it seemed to stumble on first start not at wot like it wanted to fire but just didn't have enough of something. Then wot I went and fired right up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndrewB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2013 at 1:00pm
Ect sensor checked ok after going a few more pages found out those resistances should be in Kilo ohms and not ohm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2013 at 9:52am
Easy way to prove that theory Brian break out the multimeter and measure the resistance of ECT when cold and after reaching operating temperature.

From my understanding when the engine is in cranking mode it does not read info from the TPS the mixture is controlled by the cranking map that is between 2:1 and 12:1 (air to fuel) depending on engine temp from ECT sensor.

If you're going through hell, keep going

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2013 at 1:08am
Why the Coolant Temp Sensor you ask?

When this sensor isn't working, the ECU has to assume the engine is cold and makes a richer fuel mixture, kind of like a choke.

When the engine is actually cold, this assumption is correct and it starts fine.

When the engine is warm, this assumption is NOT correct, and the engine won't start.

However, when you give it WOT it overrides the enrichning mode and goes into the flood clearing/less fuel mode which allows it to start.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2013 at 10:08pm
I'm thinking Coolant Temp Sensor.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R020024
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