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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Posted: August-27-2013 at 2:20am |
Hey guys update. Sorry been away. Ordered new cap and rotor from skidim. Checked and cleaned all grounds.
We're all good to go boat runs like new. Put 9 hrs on this weekend not one miss. Very happy with everything. Thanks for the help! sometimes electrical can be a bit tricky. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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The key switch just turns on/off the +12V side of the battery. There is no ground involved, unless you trace the wire through the ignition coil & distributor. The gauges also do not have a ground (other than the backlighting) - they rely on the sensors to complete the circuit to ground. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Hey That ignition key feed ground makes me think. When im cranking to start sometimes all gauges go all the way off or left like theres no power until you let off the kry then they all come back. Could this be a sigh of a bad ground?
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Ok thanks. Ill be sure to check the choke for a ground as well as other grounds on the boat. I might go back to points for the weekend if all works out return the ei
Diasapointed for sure but...oh well. Thanks for all the help guys! Keep you posted |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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I did have a boat one time that the electric choke was bad and after it was at full heat it would short out the ignition key feed and make it not rev over about 4000 rpms.
Checking Voltage output while this happens can lead you to something like that. I have seen worn distributor bearings cause to much clearance between the cap and rotor when everything is heat soaked and expanded. One customer of mine installed a rubber o ring under the rotor to tighten the clearance and that worked for a summer. He is back to the same problem. Now its a new distributor or try to get the original rebuilt. |
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Now I'm dealing with no spark after the top of distributer cap. I have juice to the top rotor contact but not getting any spark at any plugs. Bad cap and rotor? If timing was off becuse of distributer moving would I loose spark to all cylinders?
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Can i have the unit and coil tested? Yes choke was open. Tried the other coil nothing doing.
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boardersdad
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2013 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 409 |
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I assume you pulled the flame arrestor and confirmed that the choke is opening.
If everything else checks out, the Pertronix unit or the coil could be bad. It has been known to happen. Once you get a good one, they can run a long time. I have a Pertronix on my Mercruiser 140 that has been going strong for more than a dozen years, knock on wood. Have you tried your old coil with the Pertronix unit? Measure the old coil resistance--if around 0.5 to 0.8 ohms, you'll need to have the ballast resistor wired in before the old coil. I'm assuming your ballast resistor is around 0.75 to 1 ohms. |
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Yes choke has 12v. Im stumped .
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boardersdad
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2013 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 409 |
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Hmm, I'm assuming the 76 choke was electric, but I don't know that for sure.......
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boardersdad
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2013 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 409 |
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Did you confirm that you still have 12V at the coil + when the trouble is occurring?
Not really. I don't know about the wire colors on the 76, but on the 80's the purple ignition wire goes from the ignition switch through the harness and plug to the ballast resistor, then from the other side of the resistor to the coil +. That's it. So moving the coil + wire to the same side of the resistor as the ignition wire is equivalent to putting a jumper across the resistor. Have you checked your choke when you have trouble? It's electric, and you've been messing with the engine wiring. The choke gets fed with 12V igntion switched. It may have been connected to the 12V ingition feed side of the ballast resistor, and if you somehow disconnected it, it's not going to open. Then it would run like crap when warm.... There could also be an exciter wire (probably green or yellow) from the 12V ignition to the alternator. |
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Stuck on the river. Very frustrated. Boat ran great for two minute warm up. Then great for 45 secs of the dock.wont rev above 2500 without shudder and stall. Help!
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Headed to the river will check back with results. Thanks
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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True Dat Gary! Everyone always points a bad finger at points. They worked just fine on engines for 70 years or so..... 600+ points hours here and still ticking. The Chevy for the Skylark will be points as well. Glad to hear the Tique is running right! |
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Update. After much late reading tonight I realized that I had just put the coil ignition wire on the different pole of the ballast resistor instead of jumping over the resistor with a jump wire from pole to pole once I corrected this so far she runs very smooth and after 7-10 min of driveway run time various RPMs the coil is warm to the touch at best and she is purring like a kitten. Does that make any sense to you guys?
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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That's a good point and the answer is yes. However thats kinda where my knowledge of working with a distributer internals stops.
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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Advance weights moving freely and springs intact? Always worth checking!
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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I have the flame thrower 1 with 1.5 ohms.
As to the "feed" wire I'm assuming is the red wire from positive side of coil to ei conversion. It's only a two wire one red. Positive side ....black to neg. on coil.... I didn't check that voltage but I would be the same as coil if I'm thinking correctly. Like 11.98 on meter Thanks for help btw |
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boardersdad
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2013 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 409 |
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If your coil is internally resisted, then everything in your last post sounds correct to me. In that case the resistor could be removed.
They have three canister versions of the flame thrower coils... flame thrower -- based on what you wrote, this is probably what you have. But they have 1.5 and 3.0 ohm primary resistance values available, so I would still measure it to know what I had. flame thrower II -- "super low" 0.6 Ohm primary resistance flame thrower III -- "ultra low" 0.32 primary resistance Make sure you know what you've got. Have you checked the voltage at the Pertronix feed wire when it runs poorly or dies? I had a wiring problem in another boat years ago where a Pertronix conversion got less and less voltage as the engine compartment warmed up, until the conversion would shut down. Steve |
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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I think they called it there common questions. Yes in the ignitor intsall it says emphatically in red not to remove ballast resistor. I spoke with petronics today about this because the flame thrower coil says specifically not to be used with a resistor and that it needs 12v. Tech told me that the coil does need 12v but the ignitor install manual says to not remove it only because they are unsure of the coil you will be using. With their flamethrower coil you bypass resistor as per instruction. I understand the two directions contradiction but they said that was a safeguard for a different coil....
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boardersdad
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2013 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 409 |
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What troubleshooting guide? The Ignitor 12 V negative ground installation instructions do not say to put 12V to the coil +. Figure 2 on page 2 is for an Ignitor system without a ballast resistor, i.e. with an internally-resisted coil. The point they are trying (poorly) to make is that, if you have a ballast resistor, then as in Figure 3 you need to feed the conversion unit prior to the resistor. The Pertronix troubleshooting tip about coils tells you exactly how to check if you need a ballast resistor. You may have exceeded 8 amps and damaged the coil. The confusion in all of this is that an externally-resisted coil still needs a ballast resistor, but the electronic conversion units generally need to be fed from an ignition-switched 12V circuit. You didn't say what coil you have. If it's internally-resisted, then you don't need a ballast resistor at all. You can always use a multi meter to measure the coil ohms and compare it to Pertronix requirements for total resistance (they probably want about 1.5 ohms total, adding any ballast resistor to the coil internal resistance). Steve |
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Haha yes I understand. However after $150 in coil and conversion gotta give it a shot.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I think you know what to do--- your Tique has been running fine since 76 on points. Is it me or Petronics having alot of trouble lately?
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76 Ski Tique
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Hey guys been reading on here this evening before posting a repeat but nothing seems identicle.
So... Boat was running decent but the points needed replaced so I just went for an ei conversion from petronics. I installed it with the recommend flame thrower coil. After install had to adjust timing... No big deal. Called petronics about mounting the oil filled coil on its side and two techs said absolutely yes as long as the + and - were at three and nine. Great. After adjusting timing she ran a bit rough upon revving so in reading the trouble shooting guide jumped my coils wire to the 12v side of resistor and all is well I mean it runs like almost never before. So excited! Get down to water..start her up and after only 2 min of running she dies and won't start. After 5 min she lights but really wont perform above idle. I can't really figure it out. I have 12 volts to coil and it is hot but that was per pert tonics tech. Was able to get it to run flawlessly for like 20 secs after the river with water through it. Now it's just not running above idle and I think from my timing light I'm losing spark above 2500 rpm. Please help! Thanks. |
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