Wake plate

Waterdog wrote: Mornin' Tim, Once in a while I do get surprised by a rouge wake from another boat, and I have taken a couple over the windshield. I guess everyone has.

BFN?

Waterdog wrote:    Actually, trying to stay away from weight. People OK, fat-sacs maybe, lead no way. If something was to happen. lead is just wrong. In aircraft we always think about strength to weight = crash worthiness. In ski boats lead = stress cracks. A wake modifying plate won't add 5 lbs. Foot, will you make it to White Lake this year?

Unless you're planning on going out in the ocean or boarding in 3 foot surfs then having lead weight in the boat shouldn't be a problem. Do I think my buddy went overboard? Yes; I do, but it's his boat and he's the one wearing braces everywhere. His boat looks almost as good as mine except the interior just because he uses his waaaaaaaay more than I do and he is probably the most anal guy I have seen when it comes to his boat. I haven't seen ANY sign of stress cracks in the gel or anything and he's close to 3k on the hobbs meter. The 176 lbs of lead I use are two 88lb bricks than came off the nose of a 727. I put antiskid tape on the bottom so they don't slide ANYWHERE even in high speed turns. But I am aware of that when they're in there when in use and drive accordingly.

A wake plate won't add 5lbs of weight but what's the force/lbs it's generating on the hull that wasn't designed for it? By putting a large sac in the stern you can change the shape and size of the wake by the amount of water is in it.

Not sure about the White Lake thing... May try to make it but it depends on if I have my girls that weekend. I'd come boatless if I do.

Andy, you might have to draw me a picture of what youre envisioning... I cant work it out with the shape of the 2001 hull.

If youre just trying to even the boat side to side, a little bit of counter weight added to the port side is probably the way to go. I dont think it would take much. 50 lbs, maybe less?

Andy, unless the goal is to make the wake rampier and slightly smaller, I dont think a wake plate will do what you want.

BTW, I would not consider adding a plate to either side... I'd do something narrow in the center (padded keel). That would give you plenty of ability to alter the boat's attitude (bow up/down) which is the primary function of the plate. Putting them on the sides may alter the rooster/wake shape more, which Im guessing you dont want to do... the 2001 throws a nicely shaped wake.

Yes on the 5200 with the platform brackets and bolts. That is what I used for both the Tique and BFN platforms.

Andy, before I would put a wake plate on there have you considered adding more fat sacs? I've been boarding behind 2001's since the mid 90's using mainly mine and and buddy down the roads boats. Mine is usually under weighted with 172 lbs of lead weight on the floor where the observer would sit (to counter balance the driver wt) and a 540lb sac just in front of the stern seat. The wake is great for me but not enough for my bud whose set up is different.

He uses two cubes in the observer seat and floor weighing 80lbs a piece. A 600lb sac in front of the Stern seat and another 500lb sac on the stern seat (half full). He's got about 100lbs of lead in the bow and about another 100 lbs of lead on each side of the gas tank. The wake is monsterous (to me anyway ) and the wake literally throws you in the air. He uses two tsunami pumps to fill/empty the sacs so it only takes 20 mins or so to load her up for boarding. He is still using a federal 13x13 prop and I have tried several times to get him to upgrade to a 540 but he won't. You really gotta get on the throttle to get all that weight moving but geez louise it's huge. He's had this set up for years and I it's starting to take it's toll on his body. He has braces on both knees, both elbows and a carpel tunnel thinga-ma-bob on his forearm. He doesn't go boarding 3 times a week anymore as fuel has gotten higher and he bought a couple standup jetskis.

We all know that the wake is key in throwing some of these tricks that the pros are doing but technic is bottom line and basis for a great boarder. The BFN is not the best boarding boat but hanging out with BuffaloBFN on a weekend he had a kid who was throwing insane inverts off the back of the Pumpkin with no extra weight added what-so-ever. Just 4-5 people in the boat and this guy was getting some huge air. Greg had driven for him coutless times behind his boat so the guy knew what he was doing.

So .......why the long post? You don't need no stinking wakeplate to add to the boat. Just add more weight.

The platform bolts are lags!

Altering the manufacturer's design does present personal liability if something goes wrong out on the water.

If you do add the plate, test it well under extreme conditions.

Greg, your comments seem to pertain to wake size and not shape, so Im not sure we're on the same page. Maybe a pic will help. This is our '79 at footing speed (obviously). The boat was probably in a very slight turn, resulting in a washy lip on the right, and a clean lip on the left.

I have found the washy lip to be good for absolutely nothing. Its a toe catcher at barefoot speeds, and at slower speeds (trick/wakeboarding) it doesnt provide any "pop", so the large size of the wake goes to waste, to some extent.

The shape of the BFN wake and the 2001 wake are very different, due to the different hull design (deep vee vs. flat bottom). The 2001 tends to have a very well defined wake, with hard features. The 3 pronged rooster extends back to create a wake within the wake and a well defined, steep curl. Great for tricking and wakeboarding.

Concerning wake size and shape at slower (wake/trick) speeds, more weight in the back will result in a taller, steeper (more "vertical") wake. Putting weight in the front of the boat will mellow the wake out a little- resulting in a more "rampy" wake. Finding the right balance of weight in the boat (location and amount) for the speed that youre riding is the topic of endless discussion on other sites.

A wake plate would essentially add hook the the rear of the hull. It would do the same thing as adding weight to the front of the boat, without the accompanying growth in height- ie, it will make the wake rampier (less vertical). How much depends on the size and angle of the plate. It will also likely have a TBD affect on wake shape, as changing the running surface of the boat will change the shape of the rooster and resulting wake to some degree.

Andy, it is pretty common for guys to tailor weight placement, rope length and speed to specific preferences/riding styles. There is no real "wakeboard speed" per se... its all dependent on the above variables. You see guys riding at speeds ranging from 22mph to 26mph and all sorts of line lengths, depending on the rider's preference and the boat theyre riding behind. It *sounds* like what youre trying to do is to alter the boat/wake when it might be better (and easier) to alter the line or speed. If youre fighting to get ahead of the curl where it starts to wash over, you can either speed up a bit or shorten the line.

Generally speaking, a 2001 should throw a cleaner wake at a slower speed than a larger, heavier boat. The sweet spot is also likely to occur at a shorter line length than some of the big wake boats. I remember back in the day when I was a young teenager (mid 90's), I would ride at 22-28' off at ~18mph behind our '92. These days, those numbers are about the same when I want to air it out on the tricks. Add weight, you need to speed up to get the wake clean again, and you need to lengthen the rope to find that sweet spot again.

My boat has a very nice wake at wake boarding speed (22MPH ish for a 2001) The ramp on the wake just before it gets that white wash has a curl(a bad thing) then it falls off to the white wash. So you look for that sweet spot with little to no curl by shortening/lengthening the towline.
I've made a set of brackets that boost the height of the fly high pole more than a foot.( like a Tachyon) and that helps but in search for that wake snob wake. Maybe a plate would help a little too.

The big boats G23, Epic ect. throw a perfect ramp/wake much slower 18 or so. But they aren't 30 years old ether.   

Andy, I need a translator :)

Wake speeds... So wakeboarding?

Kill the lip... Meaning wake size? Or shape? Bigger, smaller, vertical or rampy?

Greg, are you talking about cleaning up the washy lip on the bfn? The trend I've noticed is that a lighter boat seems to clean it up a little... But it's tough to get rid of it entirely (even at barefoot speeds).

Mine really needs the sac(550) or 5+ folks on board to kill the 'lip'. Does a plate affect that effect?

The platform would be thou bolted(are they lag bolts now?)
so the gas tank would come out on install. I'd bond/bed a 1/4
inch aluminum doubler behind the gas tank with aircraft anchor-nuts
so the tank wouldn't have to be removed again and the plate
would cover the inside and outside bolts on the center 2
platform rackets.
The wake plate would be mounted to the inboard bolts only.

I'm thinking this thou as I type - engineering it on the fly!

Hey Adam,

   On my 2001, a hinged plate could be bolted to the existing
holes on the middle 2 platform brackets. A long pin (like the pin that adjusts the outboard angle on our toon) would be used to adjust the angle manually. Maybe 3 positions down and 1 up/stowed.

It would have a wicker bill on it to fine tune the "hook"

It COULD be removed with NO evidence of it being there at all.

Has anyone installed a wake plate on an older nautique?
Been thinking about fabbing one up.