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Stumble and Backfire during accel

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    Posted: September-28-2014 at 9:59am
It's been two months since I last posted here, and I thought I should provide an update.

Rightly or wrongly, I never did replace the coil. My mechanic swore up and down that it wasn't the problem. At his recommendation, I began using a foot-long piece of 2x4 to prop open the engine cover when the boat is not in use. I've also been leaving a bucket of moisture absorber on the boat when it's not in use. I haven't had a problem since I started doing these two things.

It seems that the problem is moisture. I can't recall if I mentioned in earlier posts, but the boat stays in the water all season, and wears a mooring cover. Apparently the above steps suffice to drive the moisture levels down to a point where they don't interfere with the operation of the engine.

Interestingly, I still notice the tachometer twitching from time to time, which suggests to me that there's still an electrical problem. But it no longer seems to rise to a level that stops the engine from running.

Thanks for everyone's input on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2014 at 8:56pm
When a coil fails, usually the insulation on the windings starts to break down, which is accelerated by heat (expansion). So it would make sense thst the tach would be affected since the coil resistance would change as it starts to short out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2014 at 6:25pm
The coil is still suspect if you ask me, but heat increase the resistance of all electrical connections.

Since the tach jumps around when it's acting up, it sounds possible that the (-) connection on coil is dirty/loose. Check that too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2014 at 4:43pm
When I experience the hesitation, I stop the boat, open the engine cover, and put my finger on the coil. It's hot to the touch, but not so much that I can't keep my finger on it for five seconds or so. This, according to my local mechanic, strongly indicates that the coil is fine.

You disagree?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JasonS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2014 at 2:22pm
Sounds like something (maybe the coil) is getting too hot, since it gets better when you lift the engine cover and let the heat out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2014 at 1:05pm
It's been a few weeks since I last made an entry here. Since then, I have NOT, in fact, replaced the coil. Rightly or wrongly, my mechanic talked me out of it, saying that the coil isn't getting hot enough to be the problem. Meanwhile, the severity of the problem has diminished substantially. There is still some occasional hesitation, but that's all.

What's changed? When I put the boat away, I now prop the engine cover open a bit to let the engine have a bit more ventilation. I also leave a bucket of moisture absorbent on the cockpit sole next to the engine.

I also find that, when the engine acts up, I open the engine cover for a minute or two, to let it either cool down or dry out (or something, I'm not sure what), and then it runs fine for a while until I have to do this again.

I've also noticed that, when the engine is hesitating, the tachometer bounces around quite a bit.

All this suggests to me that moisture is causing a problem somewhere in the portion of the electrical system that's under the engine cover. But where exactly? I find it hard to believe that the problem is with a connection. I've checked the connections under the engine cover, and they all seem fine.

Any more ideas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2014 at 12:08pm
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2014 at 12:07pm
When I was having troubles with my '85s coil I used a wet rag with ice wrapped in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2014 at 12:05pm
Brake cleaner came to mind because it is not flammable, at least the can I have says that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2014 at 12:01pm
Thanks. I'll try that. I thought about trickling a bit of water onto it, but was afraid the temperature differential might cause it to crack.

Why brake cleaner?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2014 at 11:56am
Spray some brake cleaner on the coil or dizzy when it acts up. That should cool it down.    Then you will know which to replace.

An ice bag may work too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2014 at 11:24am
I can't find a date on that service manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2014 at 11:21am
I was at the boat yesterday, and I learned the following:

1. My engine model does in fact start with "PLP", a model number that does not appear in the service manual to which gun-driver directed me. Maybe my 1994 engine is newer than that manual.

2. I went over my electrical connections, both on the engine and behind the dash. None of them seemed obviously loose or so dirty as to block current.

3. I had no incidences of outright dying, so I couldn't check to see which instruments, if any, failed during such events.

4. The coil never became so hot that I couldn't touch it. It definitely got warm, but I could put my finger on it for a good ten seconds without getting burned.

5. It definitely seems that something is getting too warm. Last night, whenever it began to act up, I'd opened the engine cover for a few minutes, then everything was fine.

6. The distributor is electronic.

Any thoughts? I continue to suspect the coil, and will likely replace it, since doing so is pretty cheap.

Thanks for all your help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2014 at 2:02pm
Ah HA! Beautiful! Thanks very much. Page 4 of the service manual does indeed have the model number decoded.

I had written down "PLP", but that page does not indicate that "P" is one of the options for that third space. Maybe I misread my engine badge, and the character is really a "D". I'll check the next time up at the boat.

Meanwhile, however, my gear ratio code is definitely a 12, which is, strangely, not one of the options listed in the service manual. So I wonder what my gear ratio really is (not that I need to know).

The missing gear ratio code makes me wonder whether my "PLP" really is a "PLP" after all, and the "P" horsepower code exists, but is also missing from the manual. Again, I'll double check the model number next time I'm at the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2014 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by pcrowley203 pcrowley203 wrote:


P -- PCM "gear" (whatever that means. I'm assuming it means the peripheral equipment attached to the block, such as the ignition system.)
R -- reverse or reduction gear (whatever that means. Do any of these boats NOT have a reverse gear?)
12 -- the gear ratio (I thought these boats were always 1:1, no?)
PT -- not mentioned in the German forum, but I'm guessing it indicates a Pro-Tec ignition.


Keep in mind Paul PCM supplies engines for more boats than just correct craft and for boats other than ski boats! PCM gear means its a PCM trans, gear ratio can be different for different types of boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2014 at 12:25pm
Go to the reference section , click on manuals, page down to the bottom, find PCM service manual page 4 has the code break down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2014 at 11:28am
I found this forum entry: http://www.boote-forum.de/showthread.php?t=171927&page=15. It's in German, but if you're using Google Chrome for your browser, the browser will translate the text to English at the push of a button.

According to the writer, the encoding goes like this. My engine is a PLP-PR-R12PT.
P -- PCM
L -- left-rotating engine
P -- indicates the horsepower (although exactly what horsepower P indicates, I don't know)
P -- PCM "gear" (whatever that means. I'm assuming it means the peripheral equipment attached to the block, such as the ignition system.)
R -- reverse or reduction gear (whatever that means. Do any of these boats NOT have a reverse gear?)
12 -- the gear ratio (I thought these boats were always 1:1, no?)
PT -- not mentioned in the German forum, but I'm guessing it indicates a Pro-Tec ignition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 9:11pm
Most likely the thing that hasn't changed is the engine manual, The specs for the basic Ford and Chevy motors was basically the same for a long time so they didn't update the manual for many years. The additions were usually just an added section so the 83 manual looks pretty much the same as the 93.

If you search engine rotation there is a thread that has all the PLR/PLL ect broken down. I keep a pic of my tag on my phone so I can remember what spins which direction so I don't have to guess at it when I'm not around the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 8:07pm
It very well could have been done at the factory maybe a special order,maybe it was all they had or PCM could supply. Things can change after the manuals have been printed too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 7:01pm
Wow. It had never occurred to me that the engine might have been swapped out at some point. I bought the boat in 1992, becoming its third owner. At that point, the hours read (for whatever that's worth) 300. The engine looked like old technology, even then. It looks like the pictures in the manual, although those pictures are of poor quality, so it's a bit hard to say for sure.

I went onto the CorrectCraft site about a week ago and posed the question to them. I've not had an answer yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 6:38pm
I saw that you posted this question yesterday. I am not at all up on the newer engines but I'll say this, the owners manual unlike autos could be very different from what is actually in the boat. Yours may have been upgraded,I do believe that serial prefex is the higher hp one. Write to the factory and see if they will look up the serial number of your hull and if that motor serial number is original to when the boat left the factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 6:13pm
While I have your attention, do you know the answer to this question:

I have a 1994 Ski Nautique closed bow with a PCM engine. The plate on the engine says it's a model PLP-PR-R12PT. My owners' manual seems to say that the boat could possibly be equipped with any one of the following four engine models: PLB, PL&RC, PL&RD, or PL&RP. Can anyone tell me which of those four is mine? What's the logic that maps the number on my engine to one of the models listed in the manual? I can't find anyplace in the manual where this is explained.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 5:59pm
Ah right. Yes, that much I understand. I will check all the connections I can find to make sure they look clean and secure. Thanks for the diagram. That will help make sure I get them all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 5:44pm
Basically, the dash power source (Battery Positive) wire is red. Usually the ignition wire switched on by the key is Purple.

When I say interruption, I mean a break or open in the circuit. This is normally a switch, but if you've got something funny going on like a loose or corroded connection, this is going to act like a "switch" and open or interrupt the circuit.

What I was getting at, is your coil needs a steady, un-interruped feed of positive current to work. The positive current wire should be purple, but it might be red. If the circuit is opened (flow is interrupted) then the coil won't do it's job of making spark, no matter how good it is.

This diagram should help:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 4:50pm
You overestimate me. I don't know what you mean by "purple or red" or, for that matter, an "interruption" in the ignition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 4:46pm
Sounds like a plan.

I'm sure you realize that if you're getting an interruption in your ignition (purple or red), no coil is going to help.

But, in the interest of time, it's going to take a few days to get a coil in hand, probably doesn't hurt to order it as it's a likely suspect if you're engine is cutting out and all of your dash functions are still working.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 3:35pm
I believe (although I'm not certain) that these symptoms started well after the conversion was done. That suggests the problem is not that the ballast resistor was wired incorrectly. I suppose it's possible the wiring connections to the ballast resistor are faulty, however.

Sounds like the best course of action is:
1. Replace the coil, and
2. Check all wiring connections on the dashboard and the engine, and particularly those to the ballast resistor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 3:14pm
It sounds like coil. Either the coil itself is bad, or it the ballast resister isn't wired in correctly.

It seems like a lot of those Protec to Distributor conversion kits came with a less than great coil. I've heard good things about the MSD Blaster II as a replacement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcrowley203 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 2:48pm
Thanks. That's very helpful. Next time I'm at the boat this weekend, I'll look. At this point, though, I'm pretty sure it's electronic, based on what the marina has told me. (They did the conversion from Pro-Tec.)

Assuming the distributor is electronic, does that suggest any other ideas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2014 at 2:43pm
This will help somewhat, but you really need to see under the cap to know:
http://www.skidim.com/distributor.asp

Under the cap, an electronic would look something like this:


And points would look something like this:
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