SN 196 1995 - Engine bearing problem |
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: November-01-2014 at 8:30am |
Hello guys,
So the engine was completely rebuild and mechanically speaking everything seems fine. However I'm still having problems starting the boat when the engine is cold. I need to open the throttle and let the engine warm-up in order for the engine to work properly. The engine also fails sometimes when going from forward to rear speed (don't know the exact term in English). I am suspecting something is going on with the IAC valve... I have found several references in other topics to the "INNOVA 3145 Ford Digital Code Reader". Will this work on my engine? Will I need a cable to connect or this just plugs directly to the STO Connector? |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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MrMcD thanks for the inputs!!! I will have that in mind once I replace the lifters.
As for the leaking valves we did a test procedure with a air gun and a flow meter to see if it was sealing properly. All valves were OK, including that one that showed some oil. Nevertheless I think it will be safe to replace the valve stem seals! |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3736 |
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A quick check to see if your valves are leaking, pour some diesel fuel into each port, it will either leak or stay sealed. If they leak your heads will need work. At least re lap the valves and install new valve stem seals. A leaking valve stem seal could be the source of your oil.
Old Cuda mentioned finding the source of your bearing failure. This is important or it really may happen again. If you starved the engine by running low on oil it normally hurts the rod bearing farthest from the oil pump first. On a Chevy that is Cyl # 1. I don't know for a Ford you would have to look at your oiling system. If it failed in Cyl 7 and 8 it could be a mis fireing plug wire. Common in the Fords. New plug wires with careful routing fixes that problem. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3736 |
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The E251K is the entire Set of piston rings, all 8 cylinders in one box. If the cam shows any wear it must be replaced or re ground.
Since you don't know where the lifters came from they would have to be broken in again, new lifter or used lifter they will need to be broken in to this cam or a new cam using the 20 minutes at 2,000 RPM on initial start up. This start up procedure will get the lifter spinning in the lifter bore, if they do not spin when the cam hits them it will flatten the cam lobe and dish out the lifter foot leaving you with a dead cylinder and needing a rebuild all over again. There was a period in time, 1999 or 2000 when the lifter companies had problems and no new lifters could be bought. We were forced to use old lifters in many engines, with proper break in they worked fine. New lifters with a new cam would be first choice of course. |
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mamigacz
Groupie Joined: June-08-2014 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 96 |
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Does this GT40 351W have a flat tappet cam? If the answer is yes, you need to be carefull about reusing lifters that have been removed. Used lifters have to be replaced in the bores they came out of. If its too late and they are laying in pile, i would definitely replace them with new. Another important thing to note. If the cam is damaged or severly worn, its risky to replace lifters with new ones. Your better off getting a new cam and lifters. |
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Hi guys,
I need your feedback on the following pictures. I noticed that one of the cylinders head was humid (with oil). All the others are completely dry but one of them has oil on it (take a look at the 2nd picture, first cylinder on the left). Curiously, this cylinder was the one that was doing the "clack clack" sound. Is this normal? |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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GaryS you are right! Thank you, I already asked my mechanic to have a look and see what are the right lifters. However, I'm still not sure if I really need them. Is there a way to see if the parts are ok? A visual inspection is enough? A precise measurement regarding length and diameter?
GlassSeeker, I hope you are right... I also asked for a clarification on that. |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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I dont think its 38 per piston...it says for 8 cyl set
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This is the life
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Be careful Summit will NOT know what is in your engine for lifters, only by you looking to see what is in there now will it be known for sure. Ford cars and trucks had them by then,the PCM marine engines never did from the factory.
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Thanks for the inputs MrMcD.
So following all your comments regarding the part suppliers and after checking with SummitRacing I have the following set of parts to order: - Complete gasket set - Main Bearings set STD - Rod Bearings set STD - Piston rings set - Fuel pressure regulator (The PCM valve costs 170$ on nautiqueparts.com but they seam exactly the same) What do you think? All of these are for the 351W engine so I hope everything works out. I was a little surprise with the piston rings price. 38$ for each piston... which means 312$ for the V8. Now I'm just waiting an e-mail from Summit regarding the correct hydraulic lifters. |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3736 |
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Modern Piston rings seat on very smooth surfaces. Since 1990 GM and Ford with both advise NOT to rehone if your cylinders are clean and smooth. The used cylinder is a very good finish for Modern Moly rings, if you have damage or choose to run Cast Iron rings with no moly coating a re hone is advised.
If a rod bearing pounded out you may have damage on the piston above that rod bearing and damage to the crankshaft. If the rod bearing spun in it's rod the rod will need to be re sized or it will spin again in short order. Quality parts are available and Federal Mogul is available World Wide. For Piston Rings brand options would be: Sealed Power, Hastings or Dana, use Moly rings if available. Rod and Main Bearings, Federal Mogul or Clevite Gaskets Fel Pro or Victor Marine gaskets If you move the lifters to new location or replace the lifters with the existing camshaft or a new camshaft a break in will need to be done on start up. The engine must run at 2,000 -2,500 RPM for a full 20 minutes to get the lifters seated properly to your camshaft. If you don't do this the camshaft will fail within the first 5 hours of use. |
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MustangMadness
Senior Member Joined: April-15-2014 Location: Seacoast NH Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Re-hone the cylinders and get the block tanked to make sure the oil galleys are clear.
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I like a 6' beam on a small lake... My Muscleboat
1975 Mustang 225 307RH |
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Didn't catch the location part DUH.Don't hurry it very commom parts should be able to get from 1 source .I f you can't get lifters back in their original location best to replace.Not a Ford guy so can only offer general advice Good luck on getting it back up.
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Actually we did not find any problem with the valve lifters, it was just a matter of precaution...
I was trying to get everything from the same supplier but, for instance, can't find piston rings set at summit. I'll probably have to order from different stores, which means more import custom costs (I'm from Portugal btw). And you are right about the oil pump, but we have it checked and it's working perfectly. |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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If that's the case reassemble with quality parts not no name offshore junk.Look for Federal Mogal or similar quality.Plus a good oil pump would also be in order.Don't understand the lifter part did one fail/come apart?Dished bad?What does cam look like?
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I already had the engine completely checked up and measured. Everything ok with rods, pistons, head, block, cylinders... The bearings a bit weared out but nothing critical. We could not find any clear reason for the noise which seemed to come from one of the rod bearings.
Therefore we will assemble everything back again with new gaskets, bearings, cylinder rings and lifters. We need STD measures as everything is ok. I will try to find alternatives at Summit, but the problem is always understand what are the correct parts for the engine. I don't understand why the parts might be wrong if they match the 351W application. |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Unfortunately bearing damage =crank and rod damage maybe not to the eye but tolerances are too close to take a chance you'll be right in the same boat(intended) at this stage if no problem with block maybe a quick hone and engine kit would be best bet.buying everything you need 1 shot from reputable supplier. assemble and go.Gary is right that stuff is junk.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Stay away from that stuff,you picked out a bunch of no name parts. Better wait until you have it apart too,you don't know what size bearings you need,ring size or if your engine has roller lifters,they did not come from the factory that way. Might want to look into roller timing chain set too. Check a reputable parts supplier like Summit Racing or Jegs.
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Hello guys,
Thank you so much for the inputs! So after doing a full check-up of the engine I will have to replace: - Complete gasket set - Main & Rod Bearings set STD - Piston rings set - Lifters Can you please help me to check if these part numbers are the right ones for my engine? I get all confused with all the different engine names and numbers... it's always the same problem. I tried to match the search with the 351W reference. My engine is the Ford 5.8L GT-40 Pro Boss EFI, from a 1995 SN. |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Standard auto bearings there BUT something caused that bearing to fail and the one next to it is bound to fail too if nothing else just from debris from that one.Mike up crank check for round also check rod for size and round pull other caps both rod and main look for signs of oil starvation .Rare for just one rod bearing to fail for no apparent reason. there is something else going on that may destroy motor shortly.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Oops I was thinking crank sorry, still should be standard size(your mechanic will have to check that) Ford 351W not the boss.
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Forgot to mention that I'm looking for rod bearings...
I found these: rod bearings But I'm not sure if the 5.8L/351 matches the GT-40 |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Should be just standard Ford 5.8 bearings and caps.
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PT Skier
Groupie Joined: June-03-2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Hello guys,
I own a Ski Nautique OB from 1995 with a Ford EFI GT-40 engine. This summer I started having some engine problems, I started hearing a knocking sound ("clack clack clack") when the engine was running which increased in intensity as I accelerated. If I unplugged one the spark plugs the noise almost disappeared. My mechanic said that the problem was probably related with bad bearings. We pulled the engine out of the boat and in fact we found a bad bearing on one of the rods. So I need to replace both upper and lower rod bearings. Does any one knows where I can find these parts? I am already in contact with David from nautiqueparts.com but if anyone else could help it would be nice. Best regards Jose |
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Ski Nautique 196 OB (1995)
PCM Pro-Boss GT-40 Multiport EFI 5.8L 310hp 750 hours |
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