Cam selection and install |
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Posted: October-20-2006 at 12:05am |
TRBenj,
If you can shoot me an e-mail I need to ask you a question about your Weiand intake. I sent you a PM over on Planetnautique. Thanks! |
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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Awesome. Great news.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Well, it runs! I put a few hours on the motor tonight and was pleased with the results of the upgrades. I picked up a strong 400 RPM at WOT and almost 5 MPH. Top end looks to be somewhere around 48-50 @ 5000 RPM or so (my Airguide reads 48). The holeshot and midrange power are great. I lined up with my dad's '03 196 again and did a few runs. Prior to the upgrades, the boats were dead even out of the hole and he pulled on me pretty strong from 35+ MPH. His boat tops out at 49-49.5 according to his PerfectPass. Running tonight, I put 1.5-2 boatlengths on him right out of the hole and held it all the way to the top end. I may have been creeping away at WOT, but it was very close.
Overall, Im very happy! |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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You could put the SA top in a die and dimple it down so the nut-top is flush with the metal when assembled. Could gain another 1/4 -3/8" that way.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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I was very skeptical as well, and Ive been looking at low profile flame arrestors. I took some quick measurements last week of the inside of the motorbox and the height of the motor at the top of the carb nut- and it looks like I may have 1/4" of clearance. This didnt include the thickness of the carpet, so theres a good chance it will all fit. *Fingers crossed*
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Your thinking that is going to fit under the stock engine cover?
Looks real nice but that carb is really up there between that intake and the spacer. Very interested to hear how she runs... Cheers, -Joe. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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In case anyone wants to see what I did to relocate the throttle bracket, here's a pic. It became very easy once I had the motor in front of me. Everything is all back together (on the motor, anyway) with the exception of the fuel line and alternator. Once I get my end flared I can tie everything up. Water test should be tomorrow... hopefully it all comes together!
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SS-201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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The quote was leaking gaskets , not necessarily blown head gaskets.There are more reasons than supercharging or nitrous to lift the heads on 351 blocks. I have seen dozens of Windsor's roll thru the shops with leaking gaskets, older and the new. A Ford speed shop would advise you of this.
I am aware of the newer heads as I run them myself. The information was give for general Tibet. Too bad, however boats,cars, trucks there is a difference of factors. When you take a compression test and get big numbers you will see what I mean. Have fun. |
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SS 201
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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'79, by "power heads" are you referring to the '69-70 351w heads?
For those of you who have upgraded their intake manifolds: what have you done to relocate the throttle bracket? |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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Ya, supercharge or too much nitrous. Just being in the 9.s alone shouldn't warrant o-ring heads.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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I read your artical and it seems they say compared to the 59cc's and don't say they are 59??? there is a big difference between the p's and 40's but there is a big difference between the 59's and power heads with the 1.90/1.60 valves TTTTOOOOOOO, and some porting, little polishing then your playing with the big dogs and the bigger numbers on the chart you reference.
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martini
Newbie Joined: February-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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the only time I have ever seen a head gasket blow because of a head "lifting" off the block was in supercharged applications. Never(high compression or not) in naturally aspirated applications and I have owned many small block Fords, boats and cars.
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SS-201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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If you search around for heads, Edelbrock,etc you will see that ring cut heads are available. They use an special wire gasket and last for years, no leaks. I don.t think oversize gaskets are available for 351, however I stand to be corrected. The marine 351 have again about 15-19 deck clearance, why change the CC. The GT 40 heads are much better than their counterparts, many changes, however they too will lift when squeezing more CC. You are on the money the compression will be about 9-5-1.
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SS 201
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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59-61 are the factory tolerances, as cast usually 59.5, with spark plug bump machined back for larger valves and a little cleanup I got about 61ccs of clay into mine but I wasnt excessively careful about the measurement.
-Joe. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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79, not sure if youre disagreeing with me or not, but (as you may know) the GT40p's are quite different from the regular GT40's. Theres a great article here that highlights all the differences, including the 59cc combustion chambers.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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stock are 69cc, gt-40 are 64cc and D0OE are 58.9cc some of the gt-40's maybe 62cc but I'm pretty sure they are 64's need the casting numbers to be sure.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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'79, I got 60" of brake line with the right fittings at Autozone yesterday. Just gotta bend it into shape, cut it and put the flare on the end.
The heads were milled just enough to ensure a nice flat surface- standard practice according to my machine shop. I checked the preload on the lifters and had to use the .030" shims on both intake and exhaust to get within the .020-.040" range. Bill, Im sure you know this, but the GT40p's have much smaller combustion chambers than the stock 351w heads- I think theyre 59cc (stock). Add the fact that they were milled a touch and theyre even smaller, so my compression ratio will be quite a bit higher than stock. I calculated it a while back and think it will be somewhere around 9.5:1. We checked piston-valve clearance without the head gasket and there's plenty of room there. The Dude, Im glad you enjoyed this thread. Im not an expert by any means, so I appreciate everyones input here. Its been fun so far, but I cant wait to get on the water! |
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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Keith,
Consider making this thread required reading for all new members. This is one of the most impressive threads ever on this board. Thanks to you guys who are so smart about this stuff for sharing with the rest of us. Thanks to TRBenj for taking on this project so we could read about it. Best regards to each of you. |
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Mullet Free since 93
95 Sport |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Don't they sell head gaskets in different thickness increaments for this purpose? And do they need an undercut in the heads around the CC to seal with the ring in the head gasket or keep it from blowing out?
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SS-201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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It's been an issue for years, especially when raising the compression. If you have the heads surfaced every 7 thousands will up the CC and you definitely will need shims for preload and valve clearance. Most marine Windsor's have 15-19 deck clearance.
Just a little tibit been there done it. Have fun. |
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SS 201
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Thanks '79. I know its 3/8" OD, I need ~26".
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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you can get the line from any auto parts store, it's the same as brake line or fuel line that they would use in a car just get the correct diameter for your application
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Youre right, it would be a shame to choke the motor right off the bat- and Im well aware that it could happen! Once I get the motor cover installed and know exactly how much room I have to work with, Ill probably pick out something in a larger diameter to try and increase airflow.
Any tips on where to find the solid steel fuel line? Is that a standard item? |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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Understand. However watch how the choke horn is obtructed by a low profile SA, low pressure created there can richen the jetting based on RPM (airflow) and give you headaches diagnosing. Use your best judgement after seeing the parts.
After all this trouble it wouuld be a shame if it couldn't breathe. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Bill, Im not familiar with the lifting issue. Ive done a lot of reading on Ford heads and this is the first Ive heard of it. Ive got new ARP head bolts, torqued to spec.
Gottaski, I cant wait to get it running either. The plan is sometime next week. For now, I dont plan on getting a new carb @ $500+, so a shorter flame arrestor is the way Ill be going, if necessary. I think I could go with a larger (diameter) filter element without impacting clearance though- with the slight angle of the manifold my carb is mounted almost perfectly level. Can I get a 3/8" steel fuel line from any autoparts store? A friend has the tool to make the flares, and possibly a bender. I just need ~26" of line. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Bill don't quit understand what you are saying and the lifting issue????
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SS-201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Looks great, a tip, Ford heads have a problem of lifting. Now with being said this can be from high compression or even too much water pressure.
I would suggest that you have the heads milled for ringed gaskets. This will eliminate lifting of the heads and or blowing gaskets. Remember Ford heads only have a three bolt pattern. |
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SS 201
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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Looks great. The spacer with that tall a manifold may have no effect. Newer Marine carbs have the PVC port on them now. I would can the spacer before getting a scrunched flame arrestor, if it doesn't fit. Perhaps thats already your plan.
Can't wait to hear about it running... |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Well, its all back together... almost. I need a longer fuel line and throttle bracket due to the taller manifold. Just a few minor things and it should be ready for the water. I measured the motorbox and it looks like the existing flame arrestor may clear the motorbox by 1/4".
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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No results to report yet, but I am making progress! I took a break from my floor project, enlisting the help of my dad and a friend with much more experience than me to help with my motor. This afternoon we broke down the motor and installed the cam. Tomorrow we'll get it degreed and get it all bolted back together.
Intake manifold comparison: stock iron on the left, Weiand Stealth in the middle, Edelbrock Performer on the right. You can see the difference in height from this shot. The Performer is about 1.5" taller than stock, the Stealth another .5 or so taller still. The Stealth will be VERY close to fitting under my motor box- but a shorter flame arrestor may still be necessary. Shot from the rear: stock on right, Stealth in the middle, Performer on the left. GT40p's are back from the machine shop, ready to be installed! |
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