Crankcase full of tan oil |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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Posted: July-25-2016 at 3:08am |
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A note on wide open running on the engine. I had a customer that ran Whale watching trips off the coast in Alaska. He got paid by the trip. It was a half hour out and a half hour back dead time just to reach the whales so his customers could get their moneys worth.
He ran 460 Ford Engines, two per boat. The engines lasted only 2 months each because he ran them wide open all the way out and all the way back trying to get one more run in each day. Wide open runs heat everything up to the max and work all the internals to the absolute max. I do it too but I limit the wide open time knowing it shortens my engine life. We did upgrade the parts internally and got his engine life up by another month to 3 months but the Valves upgrade was to Inconel and the seats in the heads were upgraded to some high tech material but that was the best we did. The exhaust valves in the OEM Ford Marine Engine and the seats failed first in those hard working engines. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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That was a great idea to keep changing the oil. You got it flushed and each change removed the rust etc that was in there. Glad it is running well.
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Just an update. I have had the boat out a few more times, changing the oil and filter each time to check for water and to help clean things up. Last change came out looking almost as clean as it went in. Went so far as to run a hot plate crackle test for good measure and there is no indication of water in the oil. Soooo....I am going with my theory that the water come in through a flooded bilge. Or maybe somebody messed up a flush really bad? Not sure how, but in the end, I am not taking on water and I'm happy. Thanks to everyone for their input and help. I'll get some pics up next time I'm on the water and have my buddy cruising along side me.
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Ran it WOT for about 15 minutes today. I was only push it wide open for a few minutes at a time tops. I ran a few more oil changes on it and now everything is coming out clear. Putting anything other than oil in a crankcase makes me feel weird. I've heard both stories of success and horror. |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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I just installed the Timmy T two weeks ago on my 95. It set up easy and worked well.
Mine did have the 1 inch hose so my T is a 1 inch T, the picture showed a 3/4 T. Be sure and buy clamps to match while at the store. |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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oops wrong post
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jborzak
Groupie Joined: July-06-2006 Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Thanks
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1972 CC Skier
2004 CC Super Sport 210 |
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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the Timmy Tee is about $9 worth of parts available at your local Lowes store. the Setup can be used on any boat as long as you install the T on the correct side of the cooling system. find the water inlet (hull pickup) and somewhere between there and the transmission cooler, there should be a spot where you can cut the 1" cooling hose and splice in the T. sorry to hear that you've had problems! |
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jborzak
Groupie Joined: July-06-2006 Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Can I set up this Timmy T on a 04 SS210? Is it a kit or just by each piece? Unfortunately I had to many moments of need this year. Easier to repair at home.
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1972 CC Skier
2004 CC Super Sport 210 |
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brettmcox
Groupie Joined: July-29-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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I had a 73 cobalt with around 3000 hours on a 188/888 ford motor. One season a freeze plug fell out after 40 years of use.... I just put a rubber plug back in. It was a little hard because of the placement... (working around motor mount). But worked for me for a few more years. Saw it on Craigslist 8 years later. |
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2001 Super Sport GT40 - Current
1986 SN2001 351 stock- Past.... 1973 Cobalt 188/888 Stock - Past... |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
The core plugs are driven in. I'd say the chances are very good that you will find a youtube video on the exact how. How did you winterize the engine? Although the core plugs are NOT designed to prevent freeze damage, they do sometimes pop out if the block is frozen without proper winterizing. |
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Irydslow
Groupie Joined: April-05-2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Curious how you got the cast plugs back in? Noticed one of mine popped today as I fired up the boat for the first time for the season. Water pouring out of it. Hoping, like yourself, that is all that is wrong... |
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78 Correct Craft Southwind 20
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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Glad it is running and sounds like it must be running well.
I would never run my engine wide open longer than 15 to 30 seconds but that is me. If you had a major leak the crankcase would already be full of water. I would certainly change the oil again using a quality oil with protection for your camshaft. Diesel oil like Delo or Rotella offers great protection at low cost. It is available in 15-40 or 10-30. Then go run it and hope for the best. A small amount of water in your oil will boil off at engine temperatures, if you are still taking on water into the block it will turn the oil into a milkshake and will be very obvious. I am thinking you dodged a bullet on this engine. I have used both Diesel fuel and tranny fluid, ATF as a flush. Just to wash everything up, I install the Diesel or tranny fluid about 4 qts and run the engine at idle about 10 minutes then drain and reinstall motor oil. It will get an amazing amount of gunk out of an engine. There is no doubt you have rust in the block after all the internals were doused in water. Rust can work like an abrasive on your engine bearings and piston rings so a good flush might help save the engine although after 10 minutes wide open it may be past that point. |
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Got the cast plugs put back in and changed the oil again after a few idle runs off a hose. Managed to replace the plugs by setting a jack as support under the oil pan and removing one motor mount at a time. This worked really well and was easier than I anticipated. I noted that the two plugs that were out had signs of prolonged failure, rust stains below the ports.
Today I chose to put the boat on the lake and run it a bit and verify that water was coming in (and to what extent) before I started taking things apart (had a buddy in another boat just in case).. Ran it for about an hour with at least 10 minutes wide open and 15 minutes at high rpm.. Checked the dipstick and the level was unchanged. Brought it home and drained the oil. Maybe a few tablespoons of lightish brown oil. Caught it and noted that it did not separate. Rest of the pan looked like it should. Just a bit darker than it went in. That was the second oil change after finding nearly a gallon of water in the crankcase. Not sure I am in the clear just yet. Going to take it out tomorrow or Saturday and run it a few hours and do another drain and fill. So now my question is, where did all the water come from?!? Maybe I've got an internal leak somewhere, but based on what I saw today, it's gotta be pretty slow and I can hardly imagine how a gallon gets in there unless it went a very long time without an oil change. I've got another alternate theory to the block freezing. Perhaps the core plug came out and someone filled the bilge while running the boat. I've read that this can lead to lots of water entering the engine, but I'm not exactly sure how. Any thoughts? I will still probably pull the exhaust manifolds and heads to assess the condition of the internals, but probably not until I run it for awhile, provided that I do not see any milky oil. |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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NP has great service. I'd buy from them just because of that. If you need manifolds maybe ask them for a "best price". Don't forget the discount code.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Don't blame me Pete there were many who figured that out before,I just took their advise and passed what I had found on mine
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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You right. Just wanted to fire it up again without water pouring out the core plug ports. Might as well figure out if the manifolds look alright and go from there. I've never reused a gasket in anything I sit in and I am not planning on doing so now unless anyone else has strong opinions. I do rockauto for car stuff. Any suggestions on boat part merchants? Nautiqueparts and iboats both look legit... |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Why not pull those manifolds at the same time? It's a no-brainer if you ask me. If you see leaking manifolds you can be way ahead. Core plugs aren't causing the entry of water into the oil, but manifolds are the weak link according to Gary S--and he's already paved the road to the answer.
I think we all want to hear the cheer of victory and see you on the water. |
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Attempting to pop the core plugs back in and run it a bit to try and make positive determination if I need to pull the exhaust manifolds or perhaps the motor. Of course the plugs that popped are behind the mounts (center plugs). Thinking of doing the jack and block trick to remove the mount and pound them back in. But I am in no way confident that the bilge will carry the weight of the motor. Any opinions?
EDIT: Found another forum thread where a guy used a padded 4x4 across the gunwales with rachet straps to take weight off the mounts. That actually sounds like a decent solution to me... |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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NP, I've gotten way more help here than I've ever given, it's nice to be on the giving end
I hope this works as well for you as it did for me! |
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Thank you for the suggestion and the awesome write up in the FAQ. I'm struck by how great the CCF community is. I really appreciate all the help. |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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That would be nice if just manifolds. Very nice. You see there's hope here! If this all it is you should buy a powerball ticket.
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Mine was frozen when I purchased it... new exhaust manifolds and "core plugs" and I was water free in the oil pan. I'd pull the manifolds and check them, they are definitely a weak link, and could be dumping water right back into the engine. There is a thread in the FAQ section that show's what I did to check the manifolds; there are other methods also, but my method used the tools and parts I had on hand.
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Good points. I am actually the only mechanic I trust. I would rather go through it regardless.
I have not given up all hope that the freeze was not catastrophic to the block. I can't get at the boat again until next weekend. Will update once I do. |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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I actually made a friend while buying oil that is getting a '91 SN up and running. I mentioned I may need a new motor and he showed me a picture of a 351W (in Ford blue) he has sitting and is willing to part with. Will be getting with him next weekend. I like the idea of keeping the old motor for a Fall rebuild. Won't be any issues with the father-in-law. He wanted it out of his garage and no money changed hands. He'll probably want to help cover repair costs. I won't argue too much with that. |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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dabeastro
Newbie Joined: June-11-2016 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Matter of fact, the boat did go out as a loaner the last time it was out. Which probably led to it being put away wet. Starting battery installed. |
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1989 351 Ski Nautique
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Not advocating one way or the other but if they can be found, which certainly is not as easy as it was 5 years ago I would argue that a reasonably low mileage salvage yard engine is slightly less likely to provide a summer of trouble than a rebuilt long block. Either way you would be using nothing other than the longblock and would be able to inspect well enough the health of the engine in use. With the rebuilt long block you are however at the mercy of the quality of the rebuilder and the parts used. Either way – this guy is going to need another engine- if he happens to run across a nice one out of a heavy duty ford truck or bronco from around 1996 on www.car-parts.com or locally on craigslist or at a salvage yard I wouldn’t be scared of it. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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I like that idea. I worry that dropping a salvage yard engine in will give you a summer of problems and frustration. Pete, not sure the battery is his primary concern right now! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Good point on the other accessories!
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Don't forget to switch over marine fuel pump, alternator, & starter too.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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