Glass Layup Schedule on '82 2001? |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Posted: September-01-2023 at 1:40pm |
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I've gotten all the wiring straightened out and the alternator hooked up correctly. Cranked the boat and it's reading 14.5V output.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11162 |
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Without excitation, it wouldn't be putting out any voltage.You'd have battery voltage at the alternator output terminal and all the boat electrical stuff would be getting battery voltage and dropping constantly as time went on with no charging.
I'd wire it as discussed and check alternator output and battery voltage when running and it should be in the 13.5 ish to 14 range
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Thanks Keno!! Just what I needed. I've gone back through and checked everything else against the wiring diagram and it checks out. So is it likely this alternator was not regulating voltage since the exciter was essentially hooked up to nothing?
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11162 |
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Now you can say that you've seen a photo of a Mando alternator with the jumper installed.
That's how it came from PCM.
It wasn't a wire like yours but it was a strap with some black heat shrink tubing over it. Aftermarket ones came with a wire you could use just like what you have. The sensing terminal could be wired to other spots in the system in a car but in a boat the setup shown works just fine hooked directly to the alternator output. So............leave it hooked up and run the Orange output wire to the starter solenoid/relay on the same post as the cable from the battery. That takes care of your Blue circle Your Red circle is excitation fed from the ignition switch and has power in Run and Start just like your distributor and choke wires. That's the Yellow wire in the picture There's a Black ground wire from the factory in the picture too that people will tend to leave off because the casing is grounded through the mounting bolts. Linda your choice there. Pretty easy wiring, go back to the second post from the bottom on page 5 and refer to the TRB diagram for the alternator wiring. Since you have a DUI distributor it'll be a little different in other places but you wire the alternator like described above and shown in the diagram And like mentioned in that same post, the external regulator get's removed, never to be used again. I think you have it pretty well figured out |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Questions for the resident boat wiring experts... last year (and one page back on this thread) I was rewiring the dash and engine wiring trying to clean up a mess I inherited when I bought the boat. However I did not touch the alternator or external regulator because everything seemed to be running ok last summer and this summer. But the last time I had the boat on the water I noticed the voltage gauge was reading 17 volts at speed. Obviously concerned I took the gauge out of the dash and connected directly to the battery. Per my elec diagnostic meter it should have read 12.5volts off the battery. Instead it read 15 volts. So the gauge is bad.
But I started to get concerned about what the alternator actually putting out so I started digging into the alternator wiring. I discovered that I have a Mando alternator that appears to have an internal regulator. However the alternator was also wired to the external regulator. I've included a pic of the back of the alternator below. The wire to the battery was connected to the positive battery terminal (orange in the photo) which was correct. The ground wire ran to the black wire on the regulator (which was probably still grounded to the motor so probably okay) but the external regulator green wire was connected to the exciter post on the alternator (red in the photo). However all other external regulator wires were loose so I don't think the exciter post had any power to it. If that's the case then not sure the alternator was regulating voltage at all (my understanding is that the regulators on these Mando alternators need ignition power through the exciter to work). Questions regarding correcting this mess; - What is the jumper shown in the photo between the main positive output post (orange) and the sense positive post (blue)? Based on he mickey mouse wiring that was in this boat this jumper looks like it may be factory. But I have not seen that in any diagrams or photos of Mando alternators online. Is the jumper possibly powering the voltage regulator? - If i run an exciter wire from the ignition to the exciter post (red), does the jumper need to come off to avoid powering both sides? Again, I haven't seen any jumpers on Mando alternator photos or diagrams. - What is the positive sense post (blue) for on the alternator? That may inform whether I leave it connected. I'm trying to get all of this straightened out without ruining anything else (particularly my new DUI !!) so any help would be much appreciated. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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"Is it safe to assume you've watched a video or pictorial thread on shaft lapping?"
Yes, I watched videos and read Pete's instructions on this forum.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11162 |
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If I was gonna do the lapping job on one end of the shaft, I'd see no reason at all to ignore the other end Somebody might say that A.R.E machined the shaft and the coupling so the fit should be real good, your picture doesn't show a lot of good contact though. Is it safe to assume you've watched a video or pictorial thread on shaft lapping?
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Thanks for the photo insight Andrew.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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andrewmarani
Senior Member Joined: May-31-2005 Location: Baltimore, MD Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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Pictures have been an issue that is resolved using a third party. Go to the Common Questions/Adding Images sticky. Pretty simple after you've done it once.
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Builder
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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I went ahead and got a new A.R.E. dual taper shaft instead of screwing around with the old shaft. I know the prop needs to be lapped to the shaft but does the tapered coupler need to be lapped to the shaft too? I put some marking fluid on it and turned the coupling on the taper a few times. There was a good bit of blue left. The photo shows the side with the most residue left.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I would say that when you aligned it and were .002 - .003 out (which is within tolerance) that would transfer down to the taper as you rotate it. I don't think that would give you the vibration your describing, as Gary said you need a prop anyway, so start with that. JMHO Now if your getting less than that above the taper and .002 - .003 at the taper then it took a hit on the end of the shaft. |
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ScottZ
Platinum Member Joined: January-20-2004 Location: Clanton, AL Status: Offline Points: 1157 |
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Yes. I have a house on Cargile Creek.
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Scott Zuelzke
Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Apparently right up the road from you in the Chelsea/Graystone area. My coworker has a place on Lake Mitchell. Is that the lake you frequent?
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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ScottZ
Platinum Member Joined: January-20-2004 Location: Clanton, AL Status: Offline Points: 1157 |
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Where are you located in AL?
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Scott Zuelzke
Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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I'm confident the shaft is straight but the taper might be out by .002"-.003". I put a dial indicator on it and rotated at three places on the taper and it was consistently out.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Bottom line you need a new prop anyway. Get it and see how it laps in. Did you originally have the shaft out and checked to see if it was straight? If your old prop was worth saving a good prop shop can run a tapered ream in it to clean that area up, but that prop is done.....
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Unfortunately I had no choice on the carb and the DUI. The one that came on it was an auto carb and the old distributer/coil was junk. It's starting to feel like a brand new boat considering how much I've had to replace
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Thanks for all of the replies. Looks like it's unanimous that the prop needs to be replaced. What are opinions on the shaft? I hate to get a new prop and try lapping it to a shaft that I cannot get a good fit with the old prop. But I also don't want to spend another $500 on something that doesn't need replacing. If I replace I'll prob go with the double taper.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2997 |
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Table lamp base?
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I agree with all the above ^^^ but hang it in the shed not an the mantle.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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He had a nicer prop on the boat he parted out. Should have switched them just to try- than got the Acme
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Does seem like the key way on one or both the prop and or the key is garbage- but that prop is junk - for less than the money you spent on a carb and a DUI an acme 540 will provide a much bigger improvement. Nice boat!
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21194 |
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The lapping (or lack thereof) isn’t going to bother that mantlepiece.
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Pics of prop. It has some nicks on the edges.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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How about a picture of the prop.
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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That's very generous of you and I greatly appreciate the offer. I live in B'ham area. I've attempted to remove the high spot at the key way on the shaft and reseated the prop. I got a better fit but still not as good as I wanted. I'm going to try running the boat again to see if the vibration is still there. If it is then I'll have to figure out my next step. Thanks again.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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rebel skier
Gold Member Joined: October-17-2014 Location: Middle Tenn Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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Where in Alabama are you or do you ever come up to Nashville? I have 2 spare Federalists from my 85 and you are more than welcome to throw one of them on it to see if it is the prop. I am in Franklin on the south side of Nashville.
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Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Before I spend a lot of money on a new prop and possibly a new shaft I've kept tinkering with what I have to remedy the vibration. After lapping the prop to the shaft 3-4 times I still cannot get an even fit. I'm always left with blue on part of the shaft (see photos). So I pulled out the dial gage and tested three points along the shaft taper, one just above the nut, one about mid way and one just above the key slot. I got about .003 variation at the nut end, about .002 mid way and ,002 at the strut end. The variation on the taper seems to be consistent with the keyway side of the taper being closest to the gage and falls away on the opposite side. Based on this and the blueing photos I'm thinking maybe the keyway has mushroomed slightly from use with improper prop install and therefore cannot get proper seat. I may take a file or stone to the keyway side to see if I can correct. If that doesn't work I guess the only other option is new shaft and prop.
I welcome any other thoughts. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Took the boat out again this weekend and kept it under 2000 rpm for about an hour and a half and it did fine. I did notice however when I put it up that the prop was not seated on the shaft taper. it was loose, which is surprising since I lapped the prop and shaft to each other before I put it back on and it was tight on the shaft at that time. I've removed the prop to try some rough testing to see if any of the blades are heavier than others. I will lap it again and reinstall for another test run before I completely give up and replace the prop.
Also discovered the rudder housing was leaking water around the base so I've removed that assembly to clean it up and reinstall with 4200. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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The prop was what I was thinking. I rolled the shaft on a large piece of polished granite before I reinstalled it looking for variations in the gap under shaft and saw none. I realize this is not the preferred method but I don't have the equipment to do an accurate dial indicator test. But I assumed this method would be good enough to see if it was bent enough to cause issues.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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