GT40 electrical/fuel pump issue |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 974 |
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Posted: December-01-2020 at 9:03am |
Great find. Just sent the video to two gt40 owners. Thanks!
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Justin,
Thanks for your troubleshooting and making the very detailed video. I sure feel it will help anyone who has problems with their ECU. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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That's awesome! Congrats on the fix. That's an obscure one.
Nice sounding exhaust too.
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cboland
Senior Member Joined: July-15-2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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Justin, this is a very cool discovery. I would have never stumbled upon this as an issue. Congrats on the solution. I would be very curious to know if this was a widespread manufacturing issue with the ECU.
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Bud
1999 Sport Nautique |
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justiwhite
Newbie Joined: November-26-2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I went through this whole forum and found that some of the issues fixed it for a couple of days and then I was back to square one. I found my problem. Please see my video for details:https://youtu.be/9Cg3aFHsPZU
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Yes the 300 is the newest one
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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I'm not even sure, never discussed that. Assuming the 300 though since that's the updated version, right? So no reason to use the 290 then. I'll check with him though and will let you know if it does turn out to be the 290.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Which tune is Tom doing for you,the 290 or the 300? I had him do the 290 for me since the 300 hadn't been cracked yet. Wondering if it's worth it to get the 300 also.
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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Update, again: had the ecm checked by a lab where they confirmed it went bad. Luckily in the mean time had ordered an ecm off Ebay and bought the chip that I had shipped to Tom from PN who put the software on it and sent it off to CR. Already have the ecm, hoping to receive the chip in the next 2 days.
Hopefully back in business soon! |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Just thought it might help find some ECM’s guess there is more info needed
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here is what I understand Paul from a question on the eectuning.org site
Question- "I believe the part number to be F4FF-12A650-LB. The PCM service manual listed the ecm as -12A650- and I checked the ecm last night and could only find a non-ford looking sticker with the other numbers." Answer- "12A650 is the ford designation for ecu, as in pretty much any ecu. F4FF narrows it down to year and vehicle model to some extent. LB is the specific part, for both hardware/software in this case. The number that will help us help you is the hardware code from the label. Hence the request for pics. Any other EEC with the same hardware code can be chipped with software from your part." "EFI-MA39C is the hardware code,E290 or 300 is the catchcode which encompasses software and hardware by association". The ECM's marked with C1A1 or D1L1 are the ones to use which Rock Auto is not telling you. Here is the original thread on eec.org,they are the guy's who helped the OP figure this out. Makes for a good read. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Gary are these the ones your talking about.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1992,mustang,2.3l+l4,1134054,electrical,engine+control+module+(ecm+computer),2896 Some info on testing the ECM http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=25978&cc=1134054&jsn=677 |
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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Went to check yesterday but same thing, so temperature doesn't seem to have any influence. Thanks for the suggestion though!
Yes I saw it's the 91-93 4 cylinder Mustang, ecm code C1A1 or D1L1. I think the former is for manual, latter for automatic. Both supposedly work. |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Sander looks like the ECM may have seen too many heat cycles. Once it gets too warm now it becomes unstable. You can prove this by letting it cool for 30 mins or so. Lift the engine cover and wait 30 mins. Then try to restart.
After a bit more research it appears the ECM they found compatible is from a 2.3 litre 4 cyl Mustang. These ECM's used the same batch fire method for the injectors as PCM did with the GT40. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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Aaaaannnnddd the story continues...
That took longer than expected, to get the ecm back (kind of to be expected here in Costa Rica; most everything goes slowww...). But on Friday I put the ecm back in and it worked! Went wakeboarding yesterday, rode a couple sets with some friends; all good! All pleased, idling back to the dock... boat dead... NO WAY! This can't be happening.... Exact some issue AGAIN. The pin of the connector is still firmly in place. Checked the relays, nothing there. This is driving me mad, got it to work 3 times, every single time it works fine for only one day. Haven't been able to buy another ecm and the chip yet, but I'll be working on that today. Fingers crossed that solves it... |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I would just like to add that the original guy who figured this out had said you could also use a Ford Mustang ECM marked D1L1 in addition to the C1A1. They seem a little easier to find although I have not heard of anyone using one.
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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It's Sander, not Jander. But.... That's great news! I hope the guy where I dropped it off realized that or found out. I'll find out tomorrow morning. Thanks Mark! |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Gary the C1A1 variant of the Ford EEC1V must use the same output pins on the 60 pin ECM connector as the PCM GT40.
There are many variants of the EEC1V even in Australia. I went to a local wrecking yard and cut the car loom plug and removed the 60 pin connector from a junk ECM to make up an extension cable to relocate the ECM in my Sport to far less "hostile" area under the dash. Trip (Jander??) the pins are easy to replace in the connector just pry out the red insert and the pins are then released. Ford Australia used the EEC1v computer on the 6cyl Falcon for quite a few years and these were very popular cars downunder. The pinout on this ECM was very different to the pinout on the Gt40. I may have a play with this setup and source one of the C1A1 units from US along with the Moates chip and programmer/reader and see what is possible. Would be nice if you could then enhance the tune for other performance upgrades like my Megasquirt ECM. Anyone coming downunder this year for a ski with room in luggage |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Mark,I had them burn the 290 tune into my chip. At the time the 300 was not being cooperative in its download and didn't seem like it was going to happen any time soon. I thought about getting another chip and having it burned but I feel funny about bothering him,after all he would not take anything for his effort. I did send off a gift card and some giant cable ties to close the ECM back up though.
PS Mark I thought the 300 tune addressed a rolling idle issue that some had. I don't know if anything else was changed. Knock on wood mine seems to idle fine so I wasn't as concerned. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Gary, not to go far off topic but did you notice an improvement with the new 300 Chip in your 95?
My 95 runs so good I have not even thought of an upgrade. But if yours is much better maybe I should....... |
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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Awesome, thanks Gary!
I'll be on the lookout for a C1A1 and will get in touch with t.franscioni for a chip. Hope the guy that has mine now can fix it, even if a temporary fix. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here it is - Link to PN
You will want the 300 tune.I have had mine up and running with a C1A1 ECM and the 290 tune,300 was not ready yet when I had mine done.Mine being a 95 had used the 290 tune anyway,the 300 was a newer tune and had addressed some idle issues. I think the hardest thing will be to find a C1A1 fast. One of the PN guys burned my Moats chip,I had it shipped directly to him so that I was not paying shipping back and forth. I think it was pretty impressive for some "hobbyists" to come up with a fix that the "pro's" idea of repairing the issue was to do a complete engine change I have 50 into the ECM and 75 into the chip |
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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Reporting back again...
So as you can see the ground-pin got loose. Everything got corroded. Seems like the boat has been used in salt (was told it wasn't). Anyway, got the ecm to a guy who's going to try to fix it. If that doesn't work (and if it does, to have a backup for when it goes wrong again), where do I find a replacement? Don't think you can just replace the 60-pin connector, or can you? As for a new ecm, I think they're not available anymore (?), but I saw some threads on PN about replacements or so, or ways to fix them, not sure.... Gonna try to find those threads, but meanwhile any advice is appreciated! And again thanks for your help y'all! I've been using that other thread linked above as a guide, and mainly this sentence: Spot on! |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Sander, do you have a battery switch? If so, remove the cover and make sure the internals are still intact, connections good.
Then, as I'm sure you have tried, look closely at that red wire, where it comes from and where it goes, look for bare wire shorting. See if there are any splices or crimp on connectors in the area. When you cleaned those contacts and it seemed to be fixed, you may have just moved something else enough to cause it to connect for a while. You wiggled the red wire, try wiggling everything in the area that might have moved with your wire cleaning to see if you can find the bad connection. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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[QUOTE=TRIP] The culprit
The green wire from memory goes back to the dash for the engine alarm cct (SLOW) and the grey is the tach signal to dash. Not sure where that larger 12V red cable is going to though. It may just be the main power wire to dash via dash harness plug. The v drive wiring configuration in your Super Sport is a bit different to the direct drive. Being a 97 SS I assume it has the FCC I think I can see it just below LP fuel pump. Can you get a wider shot of that picture to confirm. Another thing to check is for a extra large fuse in the battery box that is actually the power source for the ECM. PCM did a retrofit that eliminates this extra fuse and wiring. They were a known cause of intermittent problems. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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Oh my god, bummer of the century (well for me it is..) ;same problem again!
Checked/cleaned those connectors again. Spoke with my buddy who got it going last wednesday, he suspected the thick red wire right next to them had something to do with it so I cleaned and wiggled there, but nothing. Boat problems always suck, but this intermittent stuff is the worst! Especially if someone drove 3.5 hours to go wakeboarding with me... |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I knew Mark's (Lewy) info would come through for you.
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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The culprit
So relieved it's fixed! Cleaning the contacts with contact cleaner was all that was needed it seems. Thanks for your help all. Lewy, your info in all those threads is amazing. Hadn't had a chance to run it much yet after we got it going, but hoping to ride some sets behind it tomorrow to see how it holds up. Confident it's good now though |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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If there was I would already be there Lots of good info in that old GT40 Fuel Supply Thread Trip If you read the whole thread and follow the trouble shooting logic it should pin point your problem. What has me a little worried is that you may have fried your ECM by applying 12volts to the wrong input on the ECM in your initial trouble shooting. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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TRIP
Gold Member Joined: December-08-2007 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 629 |
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Any $250-tickets from Aus to CR out there?! Heading to boat tomorrow to check things from that screenshot. Well you're involved in fixing it anyway lewy2001! |
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