1981 Nautique on a diet... |
Post Reply ![]() |
Author | |
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: May-18-2020 at 11:06am |
KENO thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Correct the weight includes the trans mounts so knock off 14 from the 135 for trans / bellhousing / cooler. The bellhousing is aluminum, the mounts are cast iron, so I'll have to have my buddy scan the mounts to make some aluminum ones:-) Another option, tubular steel fabbed ones.
|
|
![]() |
|
KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11189 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Same bell housing bolt pattern so it'll bolt right up with a new damper plate for the different splines like you mentioned.
It seems ;like 135 pounds is pretty heavy on the B/W with the bell housing and cooler unless you're weighing it with the mounts included or you have a cast iron bell housing I think I'd call Joe at FFI marine and see what he might have for a used output flange and a new damper plate Here's his contact info from last year
And as far as the transmission tester, it kinda morphed into a transmission/raw water pump/ alternator spinner/tester too with a couple more easy to make brackets. It keeps my simple mind easily amused ![]() |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I found a 40i trans on ebay for a very friendly price and took a flyer on it, now just need a few misc parts and then how to plug it in. It's missing the output flange so need to source that and depending on bellhousing bolt pattern may need that + a damper plate as it appears 15 v 26 splines on the current VD 71. Trans tipped the scale at 48 lbs (wet, no bellhousing or cooler) which compares I believe to the 95 lbs number for the VD. VD compete with bellhousing / cooler is 135 lbs. Should be a nice diet item.
So search is on for output flange, other req'd parts and good sources for PCM trans parts. May have to build that trans tester from forum member KENO, awesome, thx! My rabbit hole is quite deep at this point so I may as well keep digging. |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
MrMcD - thanks! I am pretty confident it will go north of 55 and as you note the Corvette equipped with the 383 would hit 55. My boat is much lighter and the engine has a more aggressive cam that will open up the top end so it will be fun to find out :-)
|
|
![]() |
|
MrMcD ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3778 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
DW1, I won't hold it against you for running the Malibu, I had one for 20 years. I actually have a set of 383 pIstons and AFR heads I planned to use on that boat but it ran so good factory stock that I never pulled it apart. Sold it and back to Nautique and happy to be back. The Nautique brand just does some things better although the Malibu had a better wake than my 95. You should go north of 55 with that engine you have.
It seems to me that Malibu sold the Corvette model with a powerful 383 that ran 55 MPH. |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Mark, it has been a lot of tinkering which I enjoy. It runs great, although not broken in so top speed is not known yet, but given its around 500 hp and tips the scales at 2175 lb and previously at 100 hp less it would go in to the low to mid 50's, I expect it will do a bit more than that now. RPM is 3400 for 36 mph don't know what peak will be, it pulled 5,600 prior to the aluminum block and bigger cam (.560" lift) so who knows at present. It really squirts forward when the throttle is cracked open and the spool up is really quick a lot due to very low piston / rod / crank / flywheel inertia and overall light weight. So yes, it is a beast:-)
It's actually brand 'Bu' but I stumbled on the weight saving and transmission thread so I thought I would share my story. The real goal was to improve the wake via mass reduction so I was here poking around for a PCM 40I trans. It also tracks great in through the course, I was wondering how that would go. I do spent lots of sets behind a 200:-) |
|
![]() |
|
MrMcD ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3778 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
DW1 you did a lot of work reinventing the old Nautique. How does it run on the water now?
Top Speed and at what RPM. I know a good 383 can be a real beast with over 450 ft pounds of torque. That has to be fun. Mark |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Yes, old style SBC. It was challenging to find a block, ended up going with an aftermarket new one from Speedmaster. It has all the production attachments which others do not. Aluminum flywheel is fine, no issues and that was a concern as I built this thing up, going in to the unknown but idle quality and accel is great, I also have a pretty aggressive cam but it idles like a purring kitten and runs like a scalded cat so happy with results. I did debate the whole LS option, doing a fair amount of math it looks like a minimal SBC is lighter in the end mainly due to the whole accessory drive setup. I did the upper end years ago before the LS stuff was even on the market, so that helped the decision to stick with the old school SBC. An LS-7 would make one heck of a package:-)
|
|
![]() |
|
GottaSki ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Dwight, wow. those are just amazing numbers
oh i see, old school aluminum chebby! How did you stumble into an alum sbc block Do you miss the heavy flywheel at all? My particular case, 141# off the 351 so far I didn't count the gear reduction starter i did years ago, and am still running the original cast iron circ pump, so thats an easy 20 combined if i were to go aluminum. You can review the build here... http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46988&title=worn-valve-stem before committing on the 351 'build', i ran this scenario, And still may do it on another boat someday One can get an all-aluminum 5.3L LM4 LS for cheap from an old trailblazer EXT. Ive seen entire running truck examples on local craigslist for 600 bucks.. Give it new bearings , about 290hp factory rated, then add cam (the stock is like 194 intake duration) and proper valvesprings for an easy boost into the 320-330 range without even taking the heads off. Aftermarket aluminum carb intake, and LS MSD spark box, alum LS ex manifolds are avail now from multiple sources. |
|
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Gotta ski - it was a step wise process, started with a basic 94 Merc all iron engine, swapped heads to 'fast burn 385' and needed an aluminum edelbrock manifold to accept bolt pattern. Added Stainless Marine aluminum exhaust manifolds with 4" outlets so then I made my own exhaust tubes and SS 4" tips (that first hole is the hardest to drill, after that one a lot easier:-). Ditched the circ pump for a simple stainless tube and an automotive style tstat housing which shed ~30 lb over all that complex plumbing. Fast forward to now and once the engine was on a stand for a rear main replacement, I found an aftermarket aluminum block which then led to 383 crank, 030 Mahle pistons, aluminum flywheel and a pretty trick camshaft, so a $2 main seal suddenly got expensive, LOL. Engine mounts all stayed the same, used same distributor so really the major fab work was exhaust and raw water inlet hoses with the circ pump delete. As I previously noted, looking for a lighter trans for another step. The rest of the boat has gotten a pretty good diet, made several carbon fiber parts and moved the fuel tank to move CG forward so total wt, reduction is 475 lb.
What have you done and how are your results? |
|
![]() |
|
GottaSki ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Dwight please fill us in on the details, and solutions, as we have done the all-aluminum thought experiment, and could not talk ourselves out of it.
Mounts, induction, ignition, exhaust, cooling, all seem to have solutions available nowadays, |
|
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
|
![]() |
|
MourningWood ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 920 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
DW1-nice!
Sorry I forgot about this thread, Have updated the first post to current. I've moved everything listed over to a '82 SN 2001, and will continue shaving. The PCM 40i install was very straight forward. The drive plate is different, otherwise straight bolt up. You may have to redial the aluminum cradle (if so equipped) because the mount holes will be slightly different. The mounts transferred over. Only other detail is the shift cable bracket is different height. Shaft coupling is the same too. |
|
1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I did not find a tranny for my weight savings program (yet), but did stumble on an aluminum (yep a GM) engine block then added an aluminum flywheel for a 100 lb reduction. Another noticeable wake improvement. So block, heads, intake, exhaust are now all aluminum so 280 lb off orginal Mercruiser,
|
|
![]() |
|
jjtaub ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: June-24-2006 Location: CT/Western MA Status: Offline Points: 34 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
depending on budget and how much engine work your doing could you do a 347 stroker rather than the 351W, its something like another 50lbs
|
|
JJTaub
78 Ski Nautique-past 94 Ski Nautique |
|
![]() |
|
GottaSki ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
MourningWood tell us more about your battery ideas
I have a parallel effort going on, minus the transmission for now |
|
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Keno, thanks and yes that funky symbol works on those other sites. Nailed it, LHR Chevy powered 'vessel' and you might consider playing the lottery this week, your guess is spot on. Just to ensure I am in good standing here, my ride when I hit the course is a 200:-)
Thanks for the comment on the 80i & the various links, my early stages of learning the details on the PCM tranny's. |
|
![]() |
|
KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11189 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Dwight
A couple of things Nobody really uses that goofy @ before the name here on CCF unless they're used to it from some "other site" ![]() Somebody is bound to come along and want to know what kind of boat and engine you're dealing with (and which way it rotates) and probably demand some pictures too. The i version of the PCM transmissions is the 1 to 1 ratio, there is a 40i which is older than the newer 80i. The 40i can have it's pump oriented to work with either rotation engine just like a B/W but the 80i only works with normal rotation engines. The pump can't be reoriented. And BTW, welcome to CCF ![]() Strictly a guess, but I'll say it begins with M and ends with U and has a Chevy that turns in the normal direction |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
@Keno: Thanks, appreciate the link. I would be shopping for a 1:1 version of that box, I will have to learn the naming configs.
|
|
![]() |
|
KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11189 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Not MourningWood but, here's an old thread where a PCM 40i 1 to 1 transmission was replaced with a B/W 10-17 which is probably the opposite of what you're thinking about, but has good info.
You can figure out differences in dampers, mount locations transmission length etc from reading his thread. BTW If you look at MourningWood's other threads he really swapped in a 40i and not a 40A like he mentions in the first post in this thread link |
|
![]() |
|
DW1 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: March-22-2019 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
@MourningWood: How difficult was the transmission swap? I have done similar weight reduction on my ski boat with excellent results. How satisfied are you with your project?
|
|
![]() |
|
MourningWood ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 920 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
....which exactly what I'm doing, based on an earlier, full-frontal shot of (I think) your motor, complete with red arrow illustrations.
Simplicity at its finest. I can't find that type of t-housing, so I can make that. And easier (for me) than to make the intake pipes, have taken an old aluminum engine water pump and gutted it, thereby turning it into a manifold, complete with a pressure bleed hose to the exhaust (ala Interceptor). The pump housing also provides bosses for alternator bracketry. |
|
1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
|
![]() |
|
Gary S ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
|
MourningWood ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 920 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Thanks, yes, I had stumbled on the Barr item earlier.
Plan to use thermostat in the stock (automotive) location, and will make a housing that discharges to the exhaust. Photos coming. With the new Barr aluminum manifolds, the total weight cut to date is 238 lbs. Will tackle hull (and attachments) soon. |
|
1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
|
![]() |
|
KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11189 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
You could look at a 351 Indmar cooling system setup instead of "making your own". The housing in the link is available these days and replaces an Indmar setup using a crank mounted pump. No funny routing of hoses or anything link |
|
![]() |
|
Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13521 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Hollow pylon, plastic windows (or none at all), and bare bones interior. I would be looking at basically everything with a jigsaw and holesaw in hand.
|
|
![]() |
|
MourningWood ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 920 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Have begun futzing around with this '81 Nautique in a way that I've always wanted to do.....weight reduction.
Nothing fanatical, just see how it performs at around 1800 lbs. First up-drivetrain. Beginning with standard 351w and 71c BW trans: Edelbrock aluminum heads: Shave 42 ib.s total Edelbrock aluminum intake: 31 lbs. Aluminum front timing cover: 10 lbs. Transmission swap to PCM 40i: 47 lbs. Battery: 27 lbs. Exhaust manifolds: 61 lbs.. Crank-driven rwp: 8 lbs. Thermostat housing and hoses 7 ibs. Starter 9 ibs. Water circulation pump 11.5 lbs. Alternator brackets 2 lbs. So far: 255.5 lbs. This winter: motor box/swim platform/seat bases/floorboards..... . |
|
1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
|
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
|
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |