GT40P Head Replacement |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: May-20-2020 at 4:11pm |
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351W Torque Sequence
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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For 351W 1973-1998 Fel-Pro says to torque in 3 steps.
1. torque all Head bolts to 85 ft pounds 2. 95 ft pounds 3. final torque to 105-112 foot pounds for 1/2" bolts I will look for a picture of the torque sequence for this head. |
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aupatking
Senior Member Joined: October-03-2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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I’m sure one of you guys knows: what’s the spec torque lbs and sequence for the GT40 heads on the 351W?
My current project is ready to have it's engine put back together. It had a rebuild with 10-12 hours on it. Not sure if the head bolts weren’t torqued or were just stretched enough to not hold torque, but those cylinders were slam full of antifreeze when I pulled it apart and the impact didn’t even stutter pulling the head bolts. On the bright side, rebuilding a 12 hour engine is the cleanest rebuild I’ve done. |
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02 SN 196 TSC2 ZO
01 SN 196 TSC1 98 SN 196 TSC1 97 SN 196 TSC1 93 SN 196 NWZ |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Well I finally was able to get the heads installed. So far we ran the motor on the hose yesterday and at the ramp this morning. The motor sounds good to my untrained ear...We are almost ready to hit the lake with the kids after some good weather and a couple of maintenance runs Hollywood, you were correct and your eyeball calibration was spot on!. Despite 2 of the holes not being drilled out for the 1/2 bolts, it didn’t hold us up from pulling it apart. Unfortunately we discovered the issue during the installation and obviously held us up for a few days. Just wanted to drop a quick note to thank everyone for their inputs & assistance on the project. Thx Brian |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Here's a pic of the flyer that was posted @ work! Hope it's not a forum party foul to 'advertise' for him since it is not a Nautique:) |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Potentially undersized bolt holes on the new heads won’t hold you up pulling it apart
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Gents, I was able to pull one of the head bolts and confirm that it fits! Glad you pointed it out so it will be one less thing that could potentially hold me up once we start pulling it apart... |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11118 |
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For some reason I had 1.7 roller rockers on the brain when I wrote the earlier post about staying with the stock rockers Edited the previous post |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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There’s nothing that stock ratio (1.6) roller rockers would impact... theyre just a little lighter weight and less friction. Increased ratio on the other hand, would be a change similar to cam that may cause tuning issues.
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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OBTW- I work with a guy that is selling an 'older' Malibu if you know anyone in the market...I'll get the flyer and post if there is an interest.
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Although some of you claim to be 'backyard hacks' , I can't thank you enough for all your inputs....I might have learned more on this forum than i did after 6 years of 'struggling ' to get through school...Admittedly, I had flashbacks after the 'simple stress-strain' comment Appreciate everyone's help. I know 'swapping' out these heads is probably a simple task for many of you (and I"m no pro) so it is a little more of a challenge to this ol' bus driver. Looking to make sure i've got all the i's dotted and t's crossed! Thanks again....
A little more background....I'm told this boat had some 'issues' before I bought it with the ECM and it was replaced...seems to be running well with the new or used replacement with the exception of the water leaks .and a few 'noises' that i wouldn't have honed in on. Without all of the time I've spent trying to work out all the gremlins I probably wouldn't have heard most of 'em with the music cranked up! |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11118 |
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Make sure you get a recommendation from someone who's done it (The 1.6 roller rockers) on a GT40 with it's "pretty finicky" ECM. Numerous people have swapped from GT40 to 40P heads without a problem, some have put a new cam in that wasn't much different without a problem, but once you're very far from original you seem to come up with the loping idle issue that's hard to solve. The 1.6 rockers are pretty much like putting a new cam in and might just be too much for the ECM Edit............this should say using 1.7 roller rockers not 1.6 since the stock ratio is 1.6 (thanks TRB) For that reason, I'd use the original pushrods and rockers and not throw anything else into the equation that might make the ECM have trouble controlling the engine as smoothly as it did before. I've done the head swap only with no running issues. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You can reuse your rockers and pushrods but you should check your lifter preload. Later on if you wish you could go for roller rockers
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Mille1sj
Senior Member Joined: October-01-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 278 |
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I used 1.6 Roller rockers for the GT40P heads I put on our 302. I believe they are the Ford Performance rockers.
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I was hoping that I could reuse the existing ones, but am open to any ideas! I went with the GT40P's based on Keno's recommendation and am ready to listen to all advice on this project.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2979 |
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Brian:
What will you be using for rockers on the new heads? |
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11118 |
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Good thinking Zach I'm gonna change my studs too, 'cause I don't want to worry about my nuts falling off |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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I called on engine rebuilders that built a combined 8-10,000 engines per month.
On engines that did not use TTY bolts they always re used the head bolts, main bolts, connecting rod bolts. These engines all went out the door with warranty. I do know my performance accounts always recommended new rod bolts on the small block GM 350 engines. Again, these were for performance builds because they have seen so many fail on high RPM engines if not replaced. Other engines they re use every part that has proved to be reliable. One final note for discussion. Many head bolts are built in the far EAST today, not New York but overseas. Do you trust the made in America bolts your engine had from the factory or the copies made in China. Other than ARP you will be searching hard to find made in America today. |
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FFImarine
Senior Member Joined: June-21-2016 Location: Medina Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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keno..... ARP does state you can reuse there head bolts if you use there moly lube and torque them to there spec but they can only do that one time after initial use. Your more then welcome to reuse head bolts as many times as you like (it’s not my engine) but is $80 really worth it??? I think not
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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Better change the wheel lugs with every tire rotation.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Stress strain curves. Basic stuff.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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Consider all bolts stretch, that's what proves the clamping forces over all expected temperatures
If the bolt returns to its original dimensions. no yield, no damage, reuse . Else discard |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11118 |
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A little light reading from ARP, you should probably read it Joe.
There might be a question about reusing bolts.................and an answer Funny thing....................You can have your opinion, I'll have mine and everybody else can have theirs too. link |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11118 |
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Send me all your once used bolts that you're throwing out, not just 351w head bolts
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Give it a rest. That new bolt you just put in stretched when you torqued it down. Using stretched bolts are cutting corners! Time for a new bolt. Now the next bolt... wait a minute...
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FFImarine
Senior Member Joined: June-21-2016 Location: Medina Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uhul4DmWuw
Check the link out... it’s not about head bolts but it proves my point that standard bolts still stretch |
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FFImarine
Senior Member Joined: June-21-2016 Location: Medina Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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I know the difference between torque to yield and normal head bolts obviously but the fact of the matter is a standard head bolt still stretches and if reused it will not achieve the proper spec ever again. I’m not here to tell people what to do but cutting corners like that to save $80 isn’t right in my book but go ahead and do what you feel is right
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11118 |
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Some of us around here are in the "Twilight Zone" Gary
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Or Pete's favorite- Auto Zone . He buys all his parts for his backyard Hacker Craft there.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11118 |
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When you get home, the easiest way to check is to see if a 17/32 drill bit fits in the hole. That's the size of the hole in a 351W head from the factory People usually seem to say "drilled out for 1/2 inch bolts" If you click on the link you'll see a conversation I once had with myself about the bolt holes link |
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