176 Rudder Story - again

KENO wrote: In the words of Yogi Berra, it's like deja vu all over again. It's still bent    Click on the link below link [QUOTE=davidg] Is the 11A rudder shaft meant to be straight, or does it have a slight bend to it? I picked one up a few years ago as a spare should it ever be needed that had a slight bend to it. No damage to rudder whatseover though. Would the water pressure cause it to bend back like that, or was that factory? I figure it should work on the old Martinique regardless.

Oh you bugger! You got me. I was thinking I may have posted on my bent rudder shaft before. With age, comes lack of memory. As I mentioned on the Barefoot Nautique thread the other day, I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning. With age, comes lack of memory. My rudder may be bent, but, my carb will be working good on the Martinique this summer.   

As they say, with age comes lack of memory.

Gary S wrote: Google is your friend link

Oh good, now I know what a dudder is

Thanks Gary

Google is your friend link

Does the 11-A rudder on a 175 improve the wake when pulling a tube?

Asking for a friend.

Dave,
I'd use it as is but, they typically can be straightened. Northside Prop should be able to do it or anyone with a press.

I doubt the water bent it but, they do bend pretty easy. Even dragging on a trailer cross member would do it.

Dave,
I think it's bent. Any indication on the leading edge of the rudder that's it was hit at one time?

I don't know if the "weak spot" is by design or just a result of the materials they chose, but Ken is right, you won't see a rudder broken in half, it will snap at the shaft and the entry point to the hull makes a nice leverage point to snap at. Anything stainless will likely stay together long enough to damage whatever it's attached to. Stainless props are another good example, if you have an outboard or I/O and think you will hit stuff, stay with aluminum and the prop will be a sacrificial piece. If you go with stainless for better performance you will damage the lower end before you tear an ear off the prop.

Still an interesting subject, even having read some discussion before. Larry, great research as always. I don't know how you can go with a story other than Jody's, like someone said he was there for a lot of design decisions, another case in point was the very interesting thread on development of the Sport hulls.

On the CC decision that they didn't want 176's competing favorably with SN's, I can't say it makes sense to me, you sell a boat, you sell a boat, more interest in more models can't be bad. Then again I don't know jack $%@& about marketing so they may have had their reasons.

My guess is, if anyone ever had the interest, a better rudder could be figured out by testing with different shapes of steel welded to a shaft. Once optimized it could be replicated out of stainless. I'm sure there is a shape/depth/amount of sail aft that would improve tracking and slow speed turning. Would it be worth the effort? Hard to say. I know my Sport doesn't turn well compared to a SN, though tracking is quite good. Would a different rudder make a difference? Probably.

Ok, here is my 2 cents on the brass vs. stainless rudder.

If it were actually a game time decision, It would have been much easier to use the weld shop (or a local weld/machine shop) to whip up a fabricated rudder rather than design and get a casting run of brass made.

We had 10-15 NOS brass rudders at N3 while I was there. I assume these came later and were swapped on and also kept in stock as replacement parts. If it was the other way around they would have been stocking the stainless rudders as replacement pieces.

Someone probably already made the smaller rudder port as normal stocking inventory so that wasn't a big issue, or instead of machining the hole larger the casting MFG just drilled the hole out smaller (would make sense if the rudder port swap is truly bolt in without hole mods).

Well Larry

With all the conflicting information floating around out there, there's only one course of action to take.............................you have to do the swap yourself and quit listening to anybody

Once you do it, it's kinda hard to undo it since some people say that the hole in the bottom for the rudder port needs to be a little bigger and others say the hole is the same size.

I'd give you my opinion on who to listen to but that would only be another opinion like all those I'm saying you should ignore



Just go for it

Ought to

Do it

Yourself

There are no subliminal messages in this post

So the story about the detuned home made rudder is an urban myth?

Disclaimer, I have not pulled a slalom skier in a course with a 17'6", Just putzin around the lake they both felt normal.

SNobsessed wrote: Ken- you would need a mask for the exhaust fumes & that would be working against the Covid problem, so maybe look for another way . . .

CO comes up in one of the stickers I mentioned

I hope that you mean I'd need a forced air supply and not one of the filter type masks   

KENO wrote: We'd probably violate every warning/danger sticker on the transom simultaneously .

Ken- you would need a mask for the exhaust fumes & that would be working against the Covid problem, so maybe look for another way . . .

I drive Frankenotters 176 all the time. As Zach said he is running a brass rudder.. I am a certified driver, and while it is no where near a modern boat (yeah driving those boats is a dream, I have been wrecked...), I find it a little more difficult to keep a line through the course then my Sport Nautique, and maybe slightly better than Dad's gen 1. (but it has been a long time since I drove that boat through the course). Chris is replacing the steering cable so that will likely improve its performance. Still a great little boat - way better to drive then my buddy's 80's malibu or the couple of 90's mastercrafts I have driven.