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Starter runs a tad too long 98 Sport Nautique |
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Mpost 
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Joined: July-05-2018 Location: Monticello, MN Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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 Topic: Starter runs a tad too long 98 Sport NautiquePosted: August-04-2021 at 9:29am |
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VOLTAGE IS GENERATED TO THE SOLENOID BY THE STARTER SPINNING AFTER THE RELEASE OF THE START KEY OR BUTTON, CAUSING THE STARTER TO REMAIN ENGAGED, RESULTING IN SEVERE DAMAGE AND EVENTUAL FAILURE OF THE STARTER ! ! !"
HMMMMMM? I wonder how many volts the starter is putting out when the engine starts and revs a little? Maybe fried the volt gauge?
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84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft
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Mpost
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Joined: July-05-2018 Location: Monticello, MN Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Posted: August-04-2021 at 9:27am |
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84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Posted: August-04-2021 at 8:09am |
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Here's a little more info on the 1 to 2 second run on, in the link below
Since somebody asked me in an e mail, if that thing stayed engaged and you revved the engine to 4500 rpm and somehow the starter held together, the poor armature would be spinning at almost 311000 rpm, doing the math with the reduction ratios involved  I figure major starter damage would happen way before that speed.
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KENO
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Posted: August-03-2021 at 6:45pm |
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I don't think I'd worry about any damage since it disengaged a second or 2 later.
I'd say the Ford warning is "worst case" If it stayed engaged , you'd have some damage from spinning that poor starter motor at about 6 bazillion rpm. |
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rakerdeal
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Joined: January-10-2018 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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Posted: August-03-2021 at 5:12pm |
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So my starter has some amount of damage I'll guess. Good thing is I'm pretty good at taking them on and off now. I saved that last diagram you sent, it won't get misplaced.
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CYS
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Posted: August-02-2021 at 4:48pm |
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Ford nailed it a long time ago Here's a quote from somewhere on the internet complete with way too many exclamation points. Some of that electro magic from spinning the motor with the flywheel What you did was accomplishing the same thing, but jumpering the wires at the relay instead of the starter Same end result Usually stayed engaged for a second or 2. before engine speed kicks the pinion back Ford specifically warns:
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rakerdeal
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Joined: January-10-2018 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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Posted: August-02-2021 at 4:08pm |
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You nailed it KENO.
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CYS
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KENO
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Posted: August-02-2021 at 2:27pm |
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Something tells me that you didn't have both 2 gauge cables on the same post, but had one on each big post so one big post had the big wire to the starter and the small wire to the starter on it, just as a guess. Only a guess Ya done good
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rakerdeal
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Joined: January-10-2018 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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Posted: August-02-2021 at 12:05pm |
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OK...KENO and others...this time I think it is real. Rewired and no grinding. Somehow, even marking all pre-and-post starter relay solenoid replacement, I had messed up.
The volt meter is still pegging 18 so it is just malfunctioning.
Thanks! |
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CYS
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rakerdeal
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Posted: August-02-2021 at 10:23am |
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Oh my, thanks KENO. My starter relay solenoid is not wired like this. LOL, we are getting there!
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CYS
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KENO
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Posted: August-02-2021 at 9:47am |
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Here's a hand marked up copy of the wiring for the relay on the back of the engine. You'll have to rotate it yourself There is a way to wire it wrong and have it start normally and have the pinion stay engaged for a second or 2, but we won't confuse things with that info Your battery isn't a problem either. It's a normal starting battery And the voltmeter is dead And just to be clear for anybody looking at this diagram, it's for a gt40 with the PMGR starter It's just a hand marked up version of that part of the gt40 diagram so it's bigger and easier to read.  |
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rakerdeal
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Posted: August-02-2021 at 8:36am |
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Pete my volt meter reads 12.4 with the key at the switch on position; it reads 12.32 at the alternator output terminal with the switch to the on position. How do I determine if a battery is deep cycle? The battery is a Plus Everstart 58-3 with 550 cca and 675 at 32 degrees.
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CYS
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rakerdeal
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 8:33pm |
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Pete I will do that tomorrow...thanks.
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CYS
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 8:27pm |
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As Ken mentioned, sounds like the gauge is bad but:
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rakerdeal
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 8:25pm |
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As I look back at the old thread I do say "it is starting perfectly"....not sure why I wrote that back then unless the stater or bendix or whatever didn't hang up for a short while. We had multiple health issues arise in the family, mine was blood clots but there were others with worse, and I just haven't used the boat.
Anyway the starter is running, something's grinding, for about a full second after the boat is running.
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CYS
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rakerdeal
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 8:15pm |
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And yes please post the wiring diagram once again. I need to start over I think.
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CYS
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rakerdeal
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 8:14pm |
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KENO we solved several issues with fuel pump relays and the boat not shutting down (that was after I replaced the engine solonoid) but we never solved the starter running a tad too long and thus grinding noises.
I had bought a new starter and put it on; then taken it off (tested it while off the boat); etc.
The volt gage reads 18, the highest number, as soon as I turn the switch on (but not to start). |
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CYS
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 6:31pm |
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Hey, I thought this was fixed with some help from Pax on the engine mounted solenoid/relay wiring.
I think that thing should maybe get called a "relanoid" or something like that to avoid confusion. Since lots of pictures have disappeared, most of your old threads are affected, but it seemed like you had the wiring figured out and it started really good, then maybe it sat for a season or 2 and now it's taking a tad too long. Is that the case ? If you need a drawing of the wiring hookup on that newly named "relanoid", just say so and one could show up here. As far as the voltage issue, just put the key in the switch and turn it to Run ( don't go to Start) and see what the voltmeter says. If it pegs high, it's broken If it's around 12ish the voltmeter probably isn't broken. If it's around 12ish, then start the engine and if it pegs high, you have alternator issues with the internal voltage regulator. You could verify the voltage with Pete's VOM taking readings at the battery and at the alternator output terminal. You wouldn't be the first guy whose alternator failed and is putting out enough voltage to peg the meter on the dash.
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rakerdeal
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Joined: January-10-2018 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 6:31pm |
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Thanks for referencing the previous discussion as I could not find it.
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CYS
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 11:55am |
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Charles,
I suggest checking the system voltage with a VOM (volt Ohm meter) to confirm what the helm meter is reading. What is the voltage reading? Was the battery fully charged before you started the engine and what type of battery is it? Cranking or deep cycle? Regarding the starter running longer than it should, use the VOM again connected to the small "S" terminal on the start relay (solenoid) to see if the relay is still getting power after you turn the ignition switch from start to run. As JQ mentioned, it may be as simple as a bad ignition switch? Same as back a few years? |
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rakerdeal
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 11:23am |
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Jonny, yes starter solonoid. Volt meter is hand is all the way over-right to its limit. That volt meter was not reading like that before I replaced the starter and starter solonoid.
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CYS
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Jonny Quest
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Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2979 |
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 10:56am |
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Key switch and starter switch both come to mind..
Assuming that you mean Starter Solenoid Switch by "solonoid" then I would look at the key switch. .Also, a bendix gear that is sticking can make it seem that the starter is engaged too long. What do you mean that the volt meter is sammed in the high range? |
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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rakerdeal
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Joined: January-10-2018 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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Posted: August-01-2021 at 7:36am |
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I think I began this topic here a couple of years ago. Typical older age health issues have kept us fron using the boat until just recently and honestly I'd forgotten about it.
History: I did replace a couple of the fuel pump relay and I did replace the solonoid several years ago and those projects were assisted by several of you here, of course especially KENO. I'll mention too that my volt meter is sammed in the high range. If you guys have ideas toward fixing this, well I enjoy trying to remedy these issues myself and my boat is in a delightful place to work on it. The !998 Sport Natutique only has 300 hours. I live on High Rock Lake in North Carolina.
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CYS
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rakerdeal wrote: