454 Big Block yea or neh? |
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frankjgorke ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: October-06-2021 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Ah - let me not create a false impression! :) No buoys on the lake. Just free-skiing.
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ultrarunner ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-02-2005 Location: Ridgefield, Ct. Status: Offline Points: 1867 |
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Frank, I sent you a PM.
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63 Skier ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4291 |
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The main factors for me are fuel and what I have in the trunk. I'm not good at keeping the boat light so we compromise most days, plus our ski group is generally 4-5 people so we deal with what we have. But on those days that we have just a driver and spotter, 1/4 tank fuel, leave the anchor and toolbox etc. out of the boat, the improvement in wake is very noticeable. The other problem is rope length. 15 off no problem, 22 off at 32 and there's a big bump when you cross. I'm not good enough to get into 28 and 32 off so not sure about that. If you are trying those rope lengths I think you'll really appreciate the improvement with a Ski Nautique.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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frankjgorke ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: October-06-2021 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Thanks 63 Skier. Appreciate any other experiences or educated guesses!
Good idea on weight for the Sport. We usually go w/ only a driver and spotter and only have a few skis and a paddle in the boat, but maybe I'll leave all the cushions on the dock. :) For color: I've recently gotten back to slalom and haven't skied behind a more modern ski boat. But when I compare video footage of myself crossing wakes vs. what you see of the new boats on social media or in marketing footage, the apparent wake size and shape differences are striking. (I tried 22, 28 and 32 off this summer and while the Sport wake gets better there's a pretty sizable trough outside the second wake.) Of course video can be deceiving.... |
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75 Tique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6131 |
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Not exactly critical to the conversation, but just to update. Current record is 2.5 balls at 43 off. (wow!) Nate Smith. If you dont think the records are getting hard to beat, that was set in 2013. Even Nate has never beat it I heard he ran 3 balls recently in a tournament, but there was some discussion as to whether it would qualify because of the type tournament it was. Not sure of the outcome of that discussion. To put that in perspective, I just heard something last week that I did not know. Only 12 skiers have ever completed a 41 off pass. That surprised me. Number 12 just did it a week or so ago.
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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63 Skier ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4291 |
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'99 Ski Nautique is a better slalom wake than an '01 Sport, as you noticed yourself. Lightly loaded Sport is pretty good, add a person and fuel and some stuff and the Sport is not nearly as good as the Ski. I haven't skied behind a python powered Ski, but my guess would be that the few hundred extra pounds would not be a major factor on slalom wake, would still be a REALLY good slalom boat. Hopefully someone with experience in a python powered boat will chime in.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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frankjgorke ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: October-06-2021 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Hi all. Forgive me if this isn't the right place to ask but after searching I couldn't find answers anywhere else. Please feel free to redirect me. Anyone know how is the slalom wake in a Ski Nautique with the Python? (Say, perhaps, a '99 Ski Nautique that I've seen for sale.) I saw comments earlier about the wake in a V-drive but haven't found anything about the direct drive. I'm coming from a 2001 Sport Nautique and I've found that wake okay but not great (at various line lengths). From what I've read the Ski Nautique will be better for slalom but I'm wondering if the bigger motor negates the improvement in going from Sport hull to Ski (TSC) hull. Frank
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21197 |
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Not uncommon to see LS engines swapped into an Excel, the lighter weight does seem to help. Different price point or a massive project, though.
LongLakeWi, I sent you a PM last week… let me know if you saw it. |
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MrMcD ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3776 |
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LS3 is a very nice engine but everything would need to be purchased for that swap. Exhaust, Water Pump adapters, Motor Mounts, Computer Harness, Marine conversion. Might make sense if you find a boat with that engine set up parting out so it comes complete. I think the 454 Horsepower and Torque band is at least 1,000 RPM lower than the LS3 so it would need to be propped to match the new set up. No argument about the quality of those engines. I just built a 6.2L a couple months ago. They are a sweet engine package and pull like a big dog all the way to 6,000 RPM.
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GottaSki ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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I was thinking Chevy vortec Ls3
An Intake and spark box is like 700 bucks. Much less heavy |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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SNobsessed ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Diesel?
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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GottaSki ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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Would take some work, but a 6L or 6.2ls3 from a boneyard could go nicely into that and maybe reform it's deficiencies
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Faceplant ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-27-2013 Location: Otter Lake , Mi Status: Offline Points: 424 |
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Feel bad for the owner of the boat but consider yourself lucky on this one.
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Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6.
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MrMcD ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3776 |
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Those items seem to mean that engine is Toast. Sorry.
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11184 |
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Must be a damper plate oil leak ![]() I figure that all the connecting rods probably don't look the same anymore as a guess
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LongLakeWI ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: February-16-2017 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 47 |
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There was a loud thud/thump like you hit a log or something. The engine lost all power and wouldn’t run or restart. There was a fair amount of oil & water in the bilge.
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MrMcD ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3776 |
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Sorry, I assumed when maybe an explanation was needed. Long Line in Water Skiing is standard 75 ft rope. Barefooters sometimes use 100’ but waterskiers use 75’. 15’ off is the first take off length to shorten the 75’ foot rope. Deeper refers to very short lengths, So 22 off, 28 off etc, I think the current ski record for the course is 41.5 off but maybe I am out of date. If you are making the course at 15 off and go deeper you are jumping to 22 off, I think is the next jump shorter. As a recreational skier I never made it past 28 off 6 balls at 36 MPH so that leaves me in the non competitive group. The older Nautique had better wakes the shorter the rope was. The barefoot Nautique was designed for strong pull at faster speeds with footers but has a no so good ski wake. As your skiing improves in the ski course you shorten the rope to increase the difficulty.
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wayoutthere ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Headquarters Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Could you explain the terminology "deeper than 15 off" i know what 15 off is and by the next sentance "at long line", i'm thinking by deeper you mean closer to the boat ? As to the big block, my other boat has a mercruiser 496 mag ho, it's a standard bore 454 but stroked to 496, fuel injected 8 coils, 425 hp 500 torq, the boat wiggles on the trailer at idle and torq rolls a little bit in the water at start up. all kinds of cool but It burns 36 gallons an hour @ 5100 rpms. i see the v drive barefoot being cool like that too and maybe not to many made or left, hope it's just the dampener. |
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GottaSki ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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Too bad, yes hopefully the damper.
Boat's better for wakesports. Was behind one at a barefoot endurance tournament, at 36 mph wanted to get back into the wake, but gave up, needed a stepladder. It looked knee high. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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MrMcD ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3776 |
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Maybe the damper plate broke, they function like a flywheel but also dampen the engine to tranny connection with springs. They are known to fail on any boat with this type tranny. It can sound a lot like major engine failure. but the engine still runs fine, just noisy? Not sure what you saw. The damper is a wear item. How many hours were on this boat.
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THE HECKLER ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: May-25-2021 Location: AL Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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just like my 1967 SS396 Chevelle!
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63 Skier ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4291 |
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Well the good news is a rebuild or replacement is not too expensive, and a good time to add power if the owner is interested.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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LongLakeWI ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: February-16-2017 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 47 |
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Don’t know for sure, the owner thought maybe crankshaft broke after initial inspection today. I’m the furthest thing from a mechanic, but the owner certainly knows his stuff. It was a sad day for a fine boat & machine.
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63 Skier ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4291 |
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The number of well maintained mild 454's that have mechanical failure with normal on-water driving is extremely low. They don't tend to have oiling problems, in a stock/mild 454 the stress on everything is just not that great, super reliable engine. He may have thought/seemed like he maintained it, but I have my doubts. Maybe that's unfair, %#$@ happens, but just seems like there had to be a maintenance problem.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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ultrarunner ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-02-2005 Location: Ridgefield, Ct. Status: Offline Points: 1867 |
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It blew up??? Like, drop a valve? Spin a bearing? Blown head gasket?
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LongLakeWI ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: February-16-2017 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 47 |
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Thank you all for the advise!
After my test ride/drive with the BN-Vdirve yesterday, pretty much all of what was said was spot on. 1. The handling is substantially different than a d-drive. 2. The POWER and speed was there, wow what torque! It went to 35 mph with so little effort. 3. The wake was advertised as well… bigger more rigid (by looks I didn’t ski it) 4. Damn cool boat. 5. Nice interior layout, not huge but spacious. 6. In the end I probably would have bought it. The damn engine blew on the way back to the dock (glad I wasn’t driving) I felt so bad for the owner, he was the nicest damn guy ever. There was ZERO chance that this boat wasn’t well maintained. The search continues!
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MrMcD ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3776 |
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The No Wood Stringer note is important. Stringers can rot out and that repair can take months of hard work, pretty much makes a boat worth about 25% value compared to a solid stringer boat. There are many old boats with wood stringers that are perfectly OK but there are many also out there with rotted stringers. Do some homework on this one.
You have been given some great advice about boat hulls and ski wakes. Trying to ski hard behind a boat with a large wake is no fun at all. Even my 1978 Nautique had a large wake unless you skied deeper than 15 off. At long line you had a large wake even at 36 MPH. My 95 wake is much better and not an issue at any rope length.
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Jonny Quest ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 3009 |
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Sounds like my lifestyle... As stated above, you simply will NOT like to slalom ski behind that BB V-Drive. My recommendations (you didn't ask, but they are free-of-charge): Direct Drive Ski Nautique (Sport Nautique would also work) - TSC hull has a very nice slalom wake (model years 1997 through 2002 for the TSC-1 hull) - NWZ hull is OK, but not as nice as the TSC-1 hull (model years 1990 to 1996) - 2001 hull is OK, but not as nice as the NWZ hull (model years 1982 to 1989) Note: Hulls before 1993 have wooden stringers as Correct Craft went to an "all composite" boat in 1993. JQ
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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ultrarunner ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-02-2005 Location: Ridgefield, Ct. Status: Offline Points: 1867 |
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That's so true Skier. I made a point to keep my previous Sport as light as I could when I went out to "ski". Ballast empty, half a tank, and nothing in the rear trunk. That worked pretty well.
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63 Skier ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4291 |
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I was talked out of a Dominique I was looking at for this same reason, I loved the boat but once people explained that the slalom wake wasn't "less than optimal", it was in fact virtually un-skiable, I looked elsewhere.
You know, I almost bought one, great test drive, sounded awesome, fast ..... but I ended up looking for and then buying my '98 with GT-40. The Sport's are sensitive to weight for slalom wake to start with and the heavier engine doesn't help, so it didn't seem to make sense for me.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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