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(Newbie) DD SN/CC advice needed

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Grand Poobah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: (Newbie) DD SN/CC advice needed
    Posted: April-15-2022 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by reed462 reed462 wrote:

I’m also 17 so my opinion is out the window. 


Hey Reed, actually your opinion counts in a huge way!  You're in the thick of the various wake stuff and you know what's working well for you.  A 16' boat worked great for me and my friends around the same age, with about half the horsepower you've got to play with but still seemed like a lot to us.  And you're right, 50 mph in those little boats is a blast!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reed462 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2022 at 8:55am
My buddies and I love wakeboarding/kneeboarding/skurfing behind my uncles 1981 ski tique, and eventually my 79 tique. Although it is an extremely tiny boat, with a full tank of fuel and someone laying down across the back bench, the wake actually becomes very steep. Also reaching speeds of 53+ in a 16 ft boat hopping around can be a little addicting. More than enough boat for my friends and I but I’m also 17 so my opinion is out the window. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kylem428 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2022 at 8:01am
Ive had an ‘83 SN 2001, a ‘94 sport Nautique, and a ‘95 super sport all set up for wakeboarding and each one can do the job. An important consideration in your decision is space and size of your typical crew. We slammed ballast and up to 6 people in my 2001 and it was extremely crammed for space but the wake was superb. Jumping up to the 94 sport (21’ long, not 19’) the open bow Makes things much roomier with people, even with ballast on the floor. The super sport (also 21’) is even better yet, and bags are hidden subfloor or in the engine compartment. I was never able to surf the 2001, but could do so marginally on the sport Nautique, and have no problem in the super sport.   Also as an fyi there is a low hour 97 sport Nautique on FB marketplace in need of a transmission for $8k which would make a great low overhead entry in to boat ownership and give you a great platform to start from if you are willing to put in a bit of elbow grease.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2022 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by brhillman brhillman wrote:

Lots of good advice and opinions here, but it all depends on your goals and priorities. This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but I don't buy into the notion that you need a massive wake to have fun on a wakeboard, and in many ways it can be a hindrance to learning tricks. 
Surfing may be a different story, we haven't tried to surf with our boat but I'd be curious to hear how many of the folks who say you need enough weight to put the rub rail in the water have tried using a wake shape device to accomplish this with a more modest amount of ballast. The loading-all-the-weight on one side thing is how folks originally tried to get these boats to put out a surf wave before these things really became popular.

One of my pet peeves also.  My children (now adults) both learned to wakeboard behind our '92 with no ballast.  IMO the low wake helped them to learn the fundamentals and progress much faster than they would of with a larger wake.  We added some ballast when they where teenagers and my son could do flips, 360's etc.. without any problem.  At the same time my son was learning his best friends family had an X-Star. He ended up being a much better boarder than either of their children.  They ended up switching to surfing.  I see lots of kids riding behind boats that have a large wake and they are just sitting on one side of the wake looking up at it probably scared to death and not learning anything.  

Our '89 also had a really nice wake for boarding.  My son tried to surf behind it once but the wake wasn't big enough but we only had the two 400lb bags in it.  I tried a home made wake shaper and it helped but you would still need a lot of weight.

The reason I recommended the Super Sport to the OP is because he says he wants to surf.  Like I said I wouldn't buy a DD if I planned on only Wakeboarding and Surfing.  Also that boat looked like a good deal.  I was thinking about calling the guy myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brhillman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2022 at 6:16pm
Lots of good advice and opinions here, but it all depends on your goals and priorities. This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but I don't buy into the notion that you need a massive wake to have fun on a wakeboard, and in many ways it can be a hindrance to learning tricks. One of the reasons I started looking at the 82-89 2001s in the first place is because they are known for being capable of making a great wakeboard wake for an older direct drive, then I fell in love with the looks of them and wouldn't have it any other way. I get to ride behind much bigger, dedicated wake/surf boats regularly, and still have as much fun or more behind our 1989 SN2001, even with no weight in the boat. You don't need to add ballast to have a good time behind them, or even to do spins and flips, but the wake obviously gets bigger if you do, and that can be fun in its own right but definitely isn't a requirement. I also wouldn't rule out Prostars as a whole, the Prostar 205 supposedly puts out a decent sized wake for a direct drive, and I believe was the hull that the first X-stars were based on. The 190s though are definitely known for putting out as small a wake as possible, so maybe you'd want to steer away from them.

Surfing may be a different story, we haven't tried to surf with our boat but I'd be curious to hear how many of the folks who say you need enough weight to put the rub rail in the water have tried using a wake shape device to accomplish this with a more modest amount of ballast. The loading-all-the-weight on one side thing is how folks originally tried to get these boats to put out a surf wave before these things really became popular.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhectus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-12-2022 at 12:13pm
I've had both.  DD and V-drive Nautiques.  83-89 2001 hulls will have a decent surf wake but you literally have to add enough weight that the rub rail is in the water.  It's not very safe.  But that's where the surf wake will be good.  The wakeboard wake on those old hulls is amazing and still one of my favorites.  It is very steep, very sharp, and boots you to the moon.  But again, you have to add a LOT of weight for it to get like that.  70' seems to be the sweet spot, further back and the wake starts washing out.  Shorter and it's just too narrow.  
Super Sports put out a VERY good all around wake and can still pile everyone to one side for a darn good surf wake without having to compromise the safety aspect as much.  I really liked my '97 SS, but mostly wakeboarded and wake-skated behind it, wasn't into surfing as much.  
I would not even consider an older pro-star for wakeboarding or surfing.  If you were a die-hard slalom guy and the choice was between a 2001 Nautique hull and a Prostar I would pick the Prostar all day long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-12-2022 at 11:00am
Super Sport's are not all that easy to find, and tend to hold higher price points than DD Sport Nautiques.  To my eye that one Desertskier linked is a very good deal.

When you mentioned 1981 to 1999, that's a whole lot of boat range, but also a whole lot of price range.  You can get a running 80's 2001 model for $6,000-ish, have to be careful about stringer condition but it's possible to find one that is ok.  So part of this decision is the much much better wake/surf boat linked above is 3x the price of the not as good and much older boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-12-2022 at 3:58am
Originally posted by reeser reeser wrote:

@Wilhelm, great advice! Good to hear from someone that owns one & not just ones input. What length do you have? I’m really leaning towards the 2001 models now especially after hearing that you can do both. Thanks again.

Not sure what you mean by what length I have - all 1980's 2001's are the same length, to my knowledge.

The V-drive will definitely be the best choice if you are only going to board and surf. I went for a 2001 because its wake is reasonable for skiing (I do have friends/family that ski, though I don't really ski myself), and I wanted the smallest boat (for garage space/ease of towing etc.) that still throws a good (albeit not pro level) wake for boarding/surfing. I find that young kids just getting into towed sports find big wakes very scary and intimidating - the smaller wake on the unweighted 2001 compared to V-drives also helps for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 7:51pm
The boat on Craigslist is a Super Sport not a Sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 7:46pm
Most Direct-Drives were designed to have minimal wake -- mostly for  waterskiing.  In most DD boats, the boat was designed to be more or less balanced when running at speed.  As speed increases, the bow is pushed down to keep the wake flat.  The DD "cross over" boats (Sport Nautique for example) can do OK at waterskiing wakes, but really are better for the wake sports.  The V-Drive designs move the engine to the rear to shift as much weight at possible to the rear...creating a larger wake.

The Sport Nautique that DesertSkier references in his post is a nice compromise for skiing, boat size, capacity and wake sports.  Buy it.

[edit:  Super Sport]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 7:17pm
Here is a video that shows the v-drive wake.  Same boat/hull as the one on Craigslist.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 6:45pm
I would not buy a DD boat if I wanted to surf.  They can make decent wakeboard boats depending on the make and model but you need to add a lot of ballast and probably a wake shaper to surf and they still aren't that great.

What is your skill level and budget?

Here is a video of a 2001.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reeser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 6:10pm
@Wilhelm, great advice! Good to hear from someone that owns one & not just ones input. What length do you have? I’m really leaning towards the 2001 models now especially after hearing that you can do both. Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reeser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 6:05pm
@desertskier, Thanks for the advice. So you think I should set my direct drive fetish aside if i’m going for wake?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 5:39pm
Yes, it is possible to board and surf behind an old school DD Nautique. I have a 1982 2001 and have a great time boarding and surfing behind it. I do have a lot of ballast in it (built in hard tanks), and use a home made wake shaper for a surf wave (the 'pocket' is quite small though).

The Super Sport in the ad above will do both of those activities better than a 1980’s 2001, but a 2001 does just fine in its own right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 4:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reeser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2022 at 3:22pm


I am currently on the search for a boat that I can wakeboard or surf behind. I have fallen in love with the look of the 1980-1999 DD ski nautiques & master crafts and almost pulled the trigger on one but realized I need to do more research if i’m going for boarding/surfing. With that being said, I am 21 years old and this will be my first boat as i’m on the hunt for a classic looking and somewhat affordable boat.

First off I would like to know if it’s possible to board or surf behind an old school DD ski nautique/ master craft 18ft+ even if it takes extra ballasts added since this is my top choice boat at the moment. Should I lean towards the pro star/ tri star 190/209 or maybe even a 2001 or sport nautique if i’m going for wake ? I know these are all opinions but at the end of the day as long as it puts out a good wake & I can still have my direct drive I will be happy.

Thanks for taking the time. Like I said this will be my first boat so any advice helps even a phone call to shoot the sh*t would be fantastic.
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