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emccallum 
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Joined: August-08-2006 Location: Clarks Hill SC Status: Offline Points: 1084 |
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 Topic: fuel pump issuePosted: July-14-2022 at 5:52pm |
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yep, that is what mine looked like. Installed it and the boat is back running. Actually running better than before. I dont know if it is the new coil or fuel pump but she fires right up and idles stronger.
Keno and CCF, thanks for the help. ernest
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KENO
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Posted: July-14-2022 at 2:43pm |
Every once in a while you see something that makes you scratch your head and wonder  .I had a Carter M60389 show up in a box today. A Carter pump box and it said made in China. Every Carter M60389 I'd seen before this had the spring on the arm shown earlier and this newer one didn't have a spring there or any little tab on the bottom of the arm to make you think something like "they forgot the spring" With a little looking with a flashlight, there's a spring way deep inside where the green twisty is pointing in the second picture that performs the same function (still 2 springs inside, the big one on the diaphragm and the smaller return one that you don't see without looking closely. The new spring pushes down on the arm right above where the arm engages the shaft on the diaphragm It might be a little hard to visualize unless you're looking right at it but if you get a M60389 and think the old style spring is missing, that's because it is. There's just a different spring buried inside that does the same job.. I guess that's what Ernest was saying in the quote above maybe.   |
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emccallum
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Posted: July-06-2022 at 9:26pm |
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Keno, I guess you are saying (in a nice way) just stick the Carter on and be done!
 Will do, thanks!
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KENO
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Posted: July-06-2022 at 9:19pm |
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If you're talking about the one in the link below, read the numbers stamped on the bottom of the pump, they'll be familiar.
It has the vent connection too you just don't see it in the picture. Same pinched pivot rod too. If you had them side by side you probably couldn't tell them apart unless they had the price tag on them
SkiDim also sells an Indmar replacement for 265 bucks, it's vent comes out the back side but you don't see it in their picture
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emccallum
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Posted: July-06-2022 at 8:30pm |
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I got the new Carter pump in the mail today. Looks just like my old one. Pinched pivot rod and has a return spring deep inside. I guess I did lose one to the sump (I hope). The pump is made in China and feels really cheap. SKIDIM has a different one (PCM replacement) that is over double the price and has a little different design (no vent hose).
I guess I will give the Carter a try. It looks just like the one that came off and the old one may have been the original as the paint matches the motor.
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Gary S
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Posted: July-05-2022 at 4:55pm |
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With a couple of fist's full of them you could ski for a day!
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emccallum
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Posted: July-05-2022 at 4:43pm |
My guess is China. When I searched for a new pump one of the hits was from Alibaba for about $10 a piece with a minimum order!
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-05-2022 at 4:04pm |
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The original Carter pumps were made in St Louis, somewhere in the early 90's production stopped in St Louis and went somewhere else in the world so, yep the quality is not quite the same. Great advice Keno, should fix him straight up.
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emccallum
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Posted: July-05-2022 at 7:23am |
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Thanks Keno for the advice that will certainly help. I have the pin, so hopefully just the spring drowned in oil.
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KENO
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Posted: July-05-2022 at 7:04am |
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Since the arm is riding against the fuel pump eccentric out in front of the upper timing gear, if you want to have the least tension on the spring to make installation easier, then rotate the engine so that #6 cylinder is at TDC on it's compression stroke or somewhere close.
The easiest way to do that is to mark the distributor body where #6 plug wire attaches to the cap, remove the cap and bump the engine over with the starter till the rotor is pointing to the #6 mark that you just made.(or at least close to the mark) Or go to TDC on #1 compression stroke and then rotate the crankshaft 1 full turn, that does the same thing, puts you at TDC on #6 You can install the pump with the engine in any position, it just makes it a lot easier this way
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KENO
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Posted: July-05-2022 at 6:34am |
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Here are a couple of pictures The first one is a newer Carter pump, you can easily see the pin that the actuating arm pivots on. It's held in place by the metal around it being crimped, staked or whatever term you want to use, to keep the pin from falling out. The second picture is an older Carter and you really can't see the pin on either side of the arm, because it slides in from one side. I'd guess that your pump was a replacement at some point over the years because I think the mid 90's still had the old style pump. I'd also guess that it was a bad crimping job at the factory and your pin fell out, then the spring followed right after that and they're both in the sump 
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-05-2022 at 1:01am |
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Well, it is certainly clear that you do have a fuel pump failure. When you install your new pump it is important to get the cam lobe facing the correct direction so your pump will slip right in. You can bump the engine over a little until the pump slips in correctly. Don't force it or you can break the new pump arm.
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emccallum
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 9:06pm |
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Keno, thanks for the pictures. I just got home and scraped the gasket off the pump and sure enough, there is a nub where a spring would seat. It appears that I had a catastrophic failure of the pump arm pivot.
I took a boroscope and looked into the timing chain area, and there was no sign of the spring. I hope it made its way into the pan. I found a carter M60389 from summit for $51. It appears to be the same as mine, but I didn't see any markings on mine. Thanks so much to you guys for responding. Hope everyone had a wonderful 4th. Even though the boat quit, I still enjoyed the day with friends and family!   |
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KENO
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 6:11pm |
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You may want to think you have some kind of "non spring" version, but it really has 2 springs in it
One on the diaphragm and another that keeps the actuating arm pressed upwards against the fuel pump eccentric Here are a couple of pictures If that little orange one broke or otherwise decided to relocate itself and you didn't find any pieces inside the pump, it's probably in the oil pan. There's a direct path to the pan through the timing cover. Down there sunk in oil at the bottom of the sump, it shouldn't bother anything. You can find an M60389 Carter at lots of places with lots of price variation. These days they don't say Made in USA on the side and some may be better quality than others   |
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emccallum
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 4:38pm |
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I do t think mine had a spring. Searching pumps online I found some with springs and some without. I am going with me having the non spring version!!
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Gary S
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 3:13pm |
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Hopefully nothing fell in the timing cover- not much there,the lever,spring and the cross pin that the lever pivots on. If it's the original pump it doesn't owe you anything
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emccallum
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 1:55pm |
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Pulled it off. I believe something wore out on the arm and caused it to come loose. Inside the pump is super clean and the diaphragm is perfect. Something with the lever arm is toast as it fell apart when I removed it.
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emccallum
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 12:58pm |
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Thanks Gary! I may just pull it off and check it out. My buddy just showed up and took a boatload of kids out on the water, so I have some free time :)
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Gary S
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 12:18pm |
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Definitely. A check valve,there are 2, could have failed or even stuck causing a no pump. The sight tube is for a diaphragm failure
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emccallum
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Posted: July-04-2022 at 10:29am |
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My 95 SNOB died yesterday. It seems like the (original) mechanical fuel pump has died. The boat will run with a little fuel poured down the carb, but otherwise is not getting fuel. Changed the filter, so I am pretty sure its the mechanical pump. I do not see any fuel in the clear tube. Can it fail and not leak into the clear tube?
I wish the pump would have died years ago when they were cheaper! Happy 4th of July to all!! ernest
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emccallum wrote: