Kaboom! |
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67 ski nat
Platinum Member Joined: July-19-2018 Location: Santa rosa Status: Offline Points: 1194 |
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Posted: July-04-2023 at 4:44pm |
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Intakes are heavier than they look, feel like lead, even frie burgers uses two peeps
Mine goes 12756348 |
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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So yesterday I got it completely finished, but not without removing the intake manifold to install new gaskets on both sides and lots of gasket maker goop on all the sealing surfaces.. I waited 24 hours before starting it to let it cure. Man is that thing heavy! I used 4 six inch pieces of threaded rod as guides to make sure it landed in the right place. Same way I did the head. Drop it in place, install most of the bolts, then remove the threaded rod and replace with the original bolts.
I only did one side when I changed the head. This does not work. It will leak air and not idle. As you know I'm sure, these boats are not useable if they won't idle. This entailed removing the distributor again and retiming it. Now it idles. 13726548 The firing order is etched into in my brain forever.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I've always had good luck cutting exhaust hose with a hacksaw,even the wire reinforced ones. You just cut around the wire and use a dremel to cut the wire after you have made the all around cut. Hopefully you won't need this info again
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Nice! Glad you and the wife are making progress. BTW I skied a summer once back in 1984 or so with our 1978 Nautique, it was a V7 almost all summer with a burned valve in one cylinder. We were able to Ski and barefoot behind that V7 so it still had pretty good power. The valve burned at 900 hours on the clock. With new heads that engine was still a champ at 1500 hours when we sold it.
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I forgot to mention, the new wet exhaust hose is very stiff, so we boiled the pieces in water for about 15 minutes, this helped a lot. Use tongs and gloves!
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Thanks for the good wishes!
My wife and I were going to wait until Monday when help and parts arrive, but we started to do one thing, cut the new wet exhaust to size. I thought the electric carving knife would do it, no way, the rubber is too hard. I used my 4 inch carbide cutter I've used for everything for years. Then we tried to install it with Dawn soap. Nicht. Lots of WD-40 and pushing and pulling, finally got it on. Well might as well install the hose clamps, thermostat housing, raw water pump, belts, all the other hoses, rear floor, oh, we're done. I found another spark plug wire, now it's a v7, hooked up the hose, runs like a champ. I asked my wife to check if water was coming out the back, and just as she got there, a big gush of water got her good.. We were able to laugh about it since we had such a good day working together. She's a champ!.
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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The 351 V6 engine doesn't run all that smoothly, but still puts out some decent power. Good news! Hope the good continues as you get the plug wire set and other gremlins worked out. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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It's alive!
Got it to fire today! I still have a lot to put back together, but the engine is ok. I discovered that it will run on 6 cylinders. I only had 6 good spark plug wires at the moment, a new set arrives Monday. They aren't in stock anywhere around here. I also discovered I had the distributor off by 180 degrees, backfiring through the carb. I thought it was on the compression stroke with the finger on the spark plug hole trick. Wrong! I was only getting 6 volts at the coil too. Eliminated the ballast resistor for now, got 10.4 volts at the coil. Now it fires, Nothing wrong with the coil. I had a spare coil, it wouldn't fire either on 6 volts. I'll run a separate wire from the dash later, I know these old wires have lots of resistance to drop to 10.4 volts from 12.5 at the battery. No muffler installed yet, sounds like a dragster with that lope on 6 firing. So I'm relieved, I can fix what needs to be done myself. That's half the fun with boating, right!.
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67 ski nat
Platinum Member Joined: July-19-2018 Location: Santa rosa Status: Offline Points: 1194 |
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I see your in the delta, is it brackish water too
Fast and resourceful fix |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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We have seen the cooling ports blocked by pieces from a failed impeller many times, I can’t say I have ever heard of them being blocked by sand. In the old jet boat days we did see blocks get so much sand in the cooling jackets that they would start to run hot but that was running in shallow rivers with lots of sand to suck up and jet boats had 400 HP pumps sucking the water in not a simple Raw Water Pump.
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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That sounds like it wasn't hot, it was HOT. Like very hot. Hoping for the best.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I made a fitting so I can put in on the hose at the engine long ago, no more crawling under the trailer .Part of that melted too, a schedule 40, 90 degree elbow. It got hot!
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Yeah, I'm old, but not ready to give up yet. I think playing with all my toys keeps me going. The CBR1000 is long gone, I've had a few bikes since then, but sold the last one 3 years ago. My 370Z convertible with the top down is my DD now. Don't have to put my foot down at lights anymore.
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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So today we tried to see if it will fire. Reinstalled distributor, cranked it over, no spark, I had a new coil, installed, spark from coil, none to plugs, spark when opening points, spark to dist cap. The heat killed the coil and wires, so getter the right wires, cap and rotor. tomorrow.
Got the muffler all repaired, I've done this a few times, so I waiting to see if the engine is shot. Did a compression test, all read 90-100 on a cold engine, not good, but this is an old engine with over 1300 hours and a cold test will not show normal compression anyway. (wishful thinking). Added oil to cylinder #1, 190, #2 150. So the valves are good, Perhaps the rings will reseal if I can get it to fire tomorrow, |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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So if you are a 79 year old with a CBR1000 and a '90 Ski Nautique, you're who I want to be when I grow up! Glad you found the problem, now a matter of running it with fingers crossed. Hoping you plan to run it in your driveway with the timmy-tee method, not on the water, so you can see cooling water flow out the pipe.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Aha!
Yogi Berra said "You can see a lot by looking." While removing the thermostat (it's fine, opens right at 160 degrees) I happened to look at the brass elbow that enters the exhaust riser. I thought it was maybe a spiders web or some leaves, but no, it's completely clogged with dried sand. I picked it out with a screwdriver. It was sandstone at this point. I took it off (and the port side one as well which was clear)) and cleaned it. I poked inside the riser as well as blew through it, No problem. So all this was caused by a 1/4 cup of sand in the wrong spot. Perhaps it will even run. I got the muffler off so I can fiberglass it, Not too easy but necessary. My daughters boyfriend picked up 2 feet of 3 inch wet exhaust hose he's bringing tomorrow. We're going to do some work on his 93 Mastercraft too. Well, he's doing the work and I'm the teacher. His first boat at 46 years old. He's a farmer, so he's a hard worker. I'm 79, so I'm taking it easy. Yeah, right.
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bwinn
Senior Member Joined: July-13-2009 Location: ct Status: Offline Points: 396 |
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Check RWP impeller again and make sure center hub is bonded to rubber part. I’ve seen them disbond and slip.
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Thermostat stuck closed or blocked?
That could be, I'll check it out in the morning. Well technically it is morning as I can't sleep thinking about this.
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I appreciate your advise on the gt40 heads, perhaps later after I see that the engine is ok.
My mind still can't wrap itself around the cause and effect here. The temperature gauge pegged at max, but the impeller was not affected. So it was pumping water just fine, I've seen how fast an impeller with no water supply will overheat and break into pieces. The oil wasn't affected either, no water mixed in. It turns over like normal. So what caused all the heat and smoke? Only one spark plug blew out it's center, why were both sides so hot that the exhaust melted the fiberglass muffler ends but the 3 inch exhaust hose survived. Why wouldn't it run on seven cylinders. I can imagine that venting the exhaust gas out the broken spark plug into the dog house would make some smoke, but it was billowing out under the edges so much I thought it was on fire. I got out my fire extinguisher and raised the cover, but there were no flames. When I took off the head, there was soot covering the pistons and cylinder walls, but it wiped off with an oily rag and looked undamaged. Not knowing the sequence of events gives me doubts that it will be ok, or even start. I don't want to pump a bunch of money into a dead engine. I've already torqued the new head, installed the valve gear, and valve cover, installed a new intake gasket and installed the exhaust riser with a new gasket. I still have the distributor and raw water pump and belts to install. And the muffler has to come out for repair and new exhaust hoses.. Funny also, there was no water in the bilge except a little bit that normally gets by the prop shaft. Why didn't water get out the risers and flood the bilge since the connection to the muffler was compromised on both sides. It seems water wasn't getting past the raw water pump or the circulation pump even though they both looked undamaged. What stopped the water to both sides?. No evidence of a blown head gasket either. It looked fine, and no water in the oil. So what happened? Any ideas would be appreciated.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Just an idea since one head is coming off, not sure what head the 90 engine used but the GT40 heads did get better as the years went on, you might find a pair of the better heads and have two rebuilt heads. Hate to share this but after an overheat many times the head gasket fails a short time later. In overheat the cylinder head grows the fastest since that is where the combustion starts, when the head is not cooled it grows and actually crushes the head gasket. On tear down you can measure the gasket thickness and see exactly where the crush took place, normally that is near the exhaust ports in the head. So you might replace your one head and get it running perfect only to have the second head gasket fail a short time later. It is apart now, not much more work to fix both heads and have two new head gaskets. Maybe the newer heads can kick in an extra 30 HP as part of the repair. Again, not sure what year the heads changed but power did go up with them. I know the 1995 is rated 310 HP and most of that is better heads. Fuel injection adds better drive experience but a good carburetor can normally come within 10 HP of a FI engine all else being equal. Was the 1990 engine still 250 HP?
Edit: The GT40P heads seem to be the preferred head for factory performance options on a 351W. Good heads make power from idle to red line just by moving air in and out better. Many others on this forum have upgraded and may kick in better advice and if anything else has to be modified to run the P heads.
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Well I found the source of the kaboom. A spark plug blew out it's center. Never seen that before. Good news, engine seems fine except for a cracked head at the spark plug hole. No water in oil, turns over fine, impeller looks new. I'm not sure if there's damage beyond the head and muffler.
So I found a used head nearby. The shop had five of them, all cracked by the spark plug hole except one, I think this is a weak point on these old 351s.I took the good one. I got a head gasket, intake and exhaust gaskets, and went to work. It's mostly back together now. Muffler needs repair, I've done this before with a fiberglass repair kit. and new hoses from risers to muffler, got pretty hot. Spark plug wires, plugs. Perhaps it will run, we'll see. I look like an ad for bandaids. I'll keep you posted.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Bummer, the wind did kick up strong yesterday, glad you got help to get off the water.
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Well that sucks, sorry to hear about the Kaboom! Hope it's just the heads, but as hot as it sounds like it got there may be more to look into.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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Tough day on the water. Sorry for that. As far as what to do? Let it rest for a few days then get to fixing the broken stuff. Not easy or cheap but in the end its gotta get done.
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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cbr1000dude
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2011 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Happy Fathers day to all of us!
Well part of mine was happy. We took our 90 SN out for a little trip in the delta today, and on the way back from the beach, at the worst possible spot, the engine overheated and huge plumes of smoke came out the back and from under the dog house. I couldn't stop at the Indian Slough corner leading to Discovery Bay, the site of many accidents, so I tried to get out of the way, almost made it to a 5 mph zone. Then a loud boom, and the engine died. It had been running at 160 degrees all day, I always keep an eye on the gauge. Fortunately, a few boats stopped to help before the wind put me on the rocks, and a wonderful family towed me back to the dock at Orwood, and helped me get it on the trailer. They refused any money. They had a very expensive Malibu that was pretty new, and got it to the ramp expertly even though the wind had started to really blow. Nice people. I noticed one tire had a blowout out when I was putting it in the side yard, when did that happen? .Happy to be home safe and sound, it was a bit hairy with all the big boats and fast boats, unaware of their huge wakes, oblivious to the fact that I was in tow in a narrow waterway. Not so nice people. Oh, I looked over the engine, and one sparkplug had blown out of the head, well part of it. It still turns over fine, but the head is shot, cracked from the spark plug hole to the casting plug.. The Invernaflow muffler is a little melted at the hoses. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this mess.,
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