Need Help With No Spark Issue |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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Posted: June-02-2018 at 1:05am |
Jack you need one of these diagrams to find your problem on a 1979 engine assuming it's a 302 Pleasurecraft with points or maybe an electronic conversion that still keeps the ballast resistor in the circuit. You do have a direct wire to the coil from the key and it passes through the ballast resistor.On the diagram follow the purple wire from the ignition switch to the coil and you'll see the resistor If the resistor is dead (open circuit) you won't have any coil power like Spiralhelix mentioned earlier. You can check voltage into the resistor and voltage out of the resistor. . The resistor is on the back of the engine Or you can check it's resistance, if it's infinite the resistor is broken If it's about 1.2 or so ohms it's good and not your problem A good replacement part number would be Echlin ICR23 at a NAPA store or it will cross reference to a variety of other brand resistors. It should look pretty much like this and be around 5 dollars maybe a little more You could also temporarily put in a jumper from one terminal to the other and see if you have spark, but if you run it that way it'll eat up your points fairly quickly. If the resistor is good, it could also be that your ignition switch itself is bad or you have a broken or heavily corroded wire between the key and the resistor.but I'd try the resistor check first. |
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JackBShelby
Newbie Joined: June-01-2018 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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1979 Correct Craft Mustang. No power going to the coil. Power is at the ignition switch but nothing at the coil when you switch on the ignition switch. Coil must get power from somewhere else because of no direct wire from key switch to the coil. Was ok when winterized but will not start now. Cranks over fine but no spark. Thanks for your help.
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Dang I was gonna write that and ya beat me to it. My tree trimmer fried his points by leaving the switch on to his chipper. I ran out and got a set and replaced them. Two years later he still on that quick fix. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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Just like a set of points, if you have the key on and the points are closed, you'll burn up a set of points and/or ignition coil in a short time..
The same thing happens with the "electronic switch" in the Ignitor It wasn't necessarily fixed, you can still buy the Ignitor or you can pay more for the Ignitor 2 |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Good to know that was fixed! What a glaring omission that was!
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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You only get that burn up the module feature on the Ignitor (black module) In the Ignitor 2 with the red module you can leave the key on and it won't burnup thanks to some electronic magic in the module It was one of the improvements in the Ignitor 2 |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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For those of you with Pertronix, be sure not to leave your ignition switch on as it will fry the module. SkiDim and I found this out along the way with my Supra a few years back.
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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I didn't see a new thread yet, so I'll just post this here just in case. I came up with a little spreadsheet to help me keep track of my values and what I was testing. My normal values may be off for certain parts or may be different than what you have or it may need some tweaking, but it might help get you going. I, unfortunately, had to go through the process myself and even though my ballast resistor did in fact test to 1.5 ohms, didn't get a spark with a known good coil and for the $5 for a new resistor gave it a go as everything else was coming up as normal up to that point. The new resistor was the answer for me.
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Welcome Jack. It would be best to start your own thread stating what boat you have and year,what engine etc so we can help
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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Do not blindly start throwing parts at it. If you do not have a volt-ohm-meter, run to sears or walmart or auto parts store and buy one. They are cheap and useful. Then start tracing power starting at battery, then switch, then coil, then distributor. There are a ton of good videos on youtube on how to step-by-step diagnose ignition problems with your VOM. Works every time.
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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JackBShelby
Newbie Joined: June-01-2018 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Hello all,
PLEASE HELP! I am having a similar issue however, I am not getting any power to the coil at all. I tried replacing the coil, but still no luck. Any suggestions on how to get power or what to do next? Thanks, Jack |
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abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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So embarrassed, but this site is so good I have to share. My problem turned out to be loose fuel line clamps. Sometimes it would start and sometimes not, it would suck air and the gas would drain back to tank. I thought it was the control module breaking down so it did cost me $130. to learn a little more about the wonderful sport of boating. If anyone wants a Petronix conversion kit, I will sell my old one cheap.
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ABE
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abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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Joe,
Very good, I too will try rotating the distributor Sunday, I was on a Offshore Poker Run today to Toronto, and couldn't work on the 78SN. I have spark at the coil, and will check for spark at the plugs tomorrow. I have a friend bringing over a timing light too. I will post how it go's, |
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ABE
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joed
Senior Member Joined: May-04-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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You say you have spark... where? At the coil, or at the plugs? Did you try playing with the timing after you installed the new EI module? I know when I installed my conversion kit it would not start until I rotated the distributor a bit, got it started, then set the timing.
Good luck. Joe |
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abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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I replaced the control module and now it will not start at all, I have spark (new coil too) I have gas, (even starting fluid) cap and rotor are new too, but not even a sputter. So why did she stop firing up? first not when its hot, now not at all. Could it be I need a new distributer, it looks orig. What should I do ?????
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ABE
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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Seen that before... they do fail like that.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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yes you are right on all that you said
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ABE
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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Abolton, I have to apologize. I got you confused with the man who started this thread. Now that I've re-read your original post I see that you never stated that your EI unit is a new one or that it is a Pertronix brand. It sounds like you are describing a thermal breakdown issue with your ignition module. So, let me see if I have this right,....are you saying that you have spark when everything is cold, but once the engine is hot you lose spark? And you have replaced the coil right? And it ran okay for a while with the new coil but then started doing the same thing again,....is that right? If I have correctly re-stated your issue, then I think you are right in suspecting your electronic ignition unit is the culprit.
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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I just took off the stock coil and put on a blaster coil. I am using the ballast resistor, Not sure what the resistance of my coil is. I will check the timing, and set it at 8 btdc. I should change out the control module?
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ABE
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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79, I think he is saying that he has no spark when the engine gets hot.
Joe, is this correct? If so what coil are you using with the Pertronix? Are you using the ballast resistor? What is the resistance of your coil? |
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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your timing is advanced to much most likely and when it's hot it won't crank because of it. So set the timing at 8 btdc and gofrom there.
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abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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If it was the timing wouldn't it be hard to start all the time, only when the motor is hot it doesn't have spark. Could it be the control module in my conversion kit? Napa wants $136.00 for it.
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ABE
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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your timing isn't set correctly |
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abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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78 SN 351 Ford w/ Elect. conversion won't start hot, changed out the coil and it started for a few days, but now its back. Gets gas, but when its hot won't start, any ideas?
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ABE
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Trever, This is from my other post to you in "engine repair". Did you see it and did you check the voltage? Quote: When the new starter stayed engaged, you may have another problem other than a bad starter relay. You will need a volt meter or a test light. Check that the 12 volts coming from the ignition switch to the starter relay coil is actually turning off. It is the small wire on the relay. |
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joed
Senior Member Joined: May-04-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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Hey logic... did you just install the electronic conversion? If so... maybe you need to reset the timing.
After I installed the Pertronix my engine wouldn't start. I had to rotate the distributor a bit until it started... then warmed it up and set the timing. I can't believe what a difference the EI kit makes... super easy starts, great idle, good performance. Best $100 bucks I've ever spent, and I learned how to use a timing light too! Thanks for all your help and support guys... you rock! Joe |
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logicsound
Groupie Joined: July-24-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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yes the rotor turns, tried new cap and rotor, and yes the spark looks good from the coil, but I could not hear it, then I disconnected they grey tach wire and it sounded alot stronger, and I am getting spark at the plugs, but still no start and to add to my problems I turned the key off and they boat kept cranking??? had to pull coil wire. any ideas ? by the way I installed new starter and relay
Thanks |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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logicsound,Is the rotor turning???? If so sounds like a bad rotor or distributor cap.Are you getting a good hot blue arc out of the coil wire, you should be able to "HEAR" it fire,crack crack.........boat dr
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logicsound
Groupie Joined: July-24-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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i have a similiar issue, but i have the electronic conversion kit, (351windsor) I get spark out of the coil but no spark to the plugs..boat was running fine, What are my steps to troubleshoot this?
Thanks |
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joed
Senior Member Joined: May-04-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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Good news Brian! She's purring like a kitten. Installed new points and condenser... gapped, set dwell, and timing.
We're off to the lake first thing tomorrow. My Pertronix EI should be here Wed or Thurs. Thanks for all the help! Joe |
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