Water in my Engine! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: January-08-2008 at 7:44am |
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David, It does sound like your have a bad manifold but to be sure I would remove the riser and make a block off plate to cover the water ports to the riser. This way, you can put water under some pressure into the manifold and see if water is coming through to the exhaust side and not just back from the riser. Do take the Doc's advice and understand it may take a couple of flushes to get the water out.
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Dave do a Google on 71354......
Monterey La.You cannot get there from here,but if you go there you can. Welcome aboard this boat of misfits and boat nuts.Lot of good people here willing to share their knowledge and friendship.... Send me an E-Mail adress and will shoot ya some pics,they are Osco brand, direct replacements for the PCM.Only have a few hours on them , removed for dietary reasons. The S/S Hi Teks tip the scales at 12 lbs the OEM cast iron about 44 lbs . boat dr |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Thanks Boat dr. I appreciate the advice. Where are you located? I am interested in those manifolds/risers.
I live in the Chicago area. Dave |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Dave you are on the right track. Water out the top only, not out those 4 holes on the side.
Diesel and 30 weight at a 50/50 mix, with the plugs out , spin it and drain. Will take a few cycles but will clear it out and not damage any parts.... I have a set of manifolds and risers,take off when I bought the Hi-Teks.They need a new home.........Boat dr |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Guys, I just bought a 1976 Southwind with a 351 with what I assume is an early PCM Ford engine as it says GT 255. Long story short...got it home...warm day yesterday...put the hose on it to run it for awhile...was running good, then shut down....didn't want to restart....acted like engine was seized....I finally worked it free with a large torque wrenc, and got it restarted.
Bottom line...the oil pan is full of oil with water and must be up 8" on the dipstick. A very nice vanilla shake looking frothy mucky mixture. I started reading this forum, and one of the key places to look is the exhaust manifold. I pulled the port manifold off. Ran water into the inlet hose. Held it flat or at slight angle as if in boat. Water DOES come out of one of the exhaust ports as well as out the riser portion as it should. Question: Is water supposed to come out of the exhaust port?? I wouldn't think so. Question 2: Could I have scored any bearings running it for a short time with water in the oil. Question 3: What is the best start up procedure to assure I do no more damage? Any recommendations on new exhaust manifolds? Should I go with the new style pyramidal PCM's? Sorry for so many questions, but, I am really trying to preserve this old girl and don't want to sink a new motor into it. Thanks! Dave |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Its a malibu, never again will I buy a boat with an indmar engine. We hate indmar from the bottom of our hearts. Just kidding, but I would much rather him sell the malibu and get a super sport!
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Leo, you in the da boat so don't bail now.Sounds as if he owns a stern drive , hope its black and not brand X. The water should not have hurt the alt. but the slipping belt has possibly glazed and neds to be replaced.
Hope ya fix the problem and get in a little time on the water for the holiday weekend ..........boat dr |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Boat Dr,
Slidell LA. We just took out my Dad's boat to find that the raw water pump was spitting water all over the engine. The reason we figured this out is because the alternator stopped charging and our voltage dropped. We just bought a brand new Mando Alternator this summer. Maybe I should switch hobbies, this boating thing isnt working out. |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Leo, what part of Louisiana ????
My boat is still water ready,I am in central close to Natchez Miss.If close and have the time give us a call......1-318-386-2825..Billy Always glad and happy to meet a CCFan close up and in person..........boat dr |
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bchesley
Senior Member Joined: October-29-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I am not sure. Its at my dealer. The guy who owns half the shop has it rat holed. Call Shannon at Ski N Sports. 903-509-1ski
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2001 SAN
"Python Powered" |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Nutty- I am back in Louisiana for Thanksgiving. Ill try to get some pics up next week. I didn't see a water trail, but there was a lot of sludge in the rear of the engine valley. I ran the engine for about 20-30 seconds with the manifolds off. We changed the oil, but I didn't drain it to see if the new oil was contaminated. I checked the dip stick, but it didn't show any water.
Brad- Im interested in the engine. Where is it located, and how much? |
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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Can you take some digital pix of the intake and gasket and post them here? Also look very closely at the valley area of the block in the area where the suspect intake gasket. Look for evidence of a water trail. Another question....how long did you run the engine with the manifolds off? Did you have fresh oil then? Is it now contaminated too? |
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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I don't see how air is going to cool a valve faster than a valve that is seated onto water-cooled metal. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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bchesley
Senior Member Joined: October-29-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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If it is cracked let me know. I have a friend with a spare RH PCM motor from a 80's 2001. I also have a spare set of GT40 heads that we can make a deal on. I am in East Texas too.
Brad |
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2001 SAN
"Python Powered" |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Is there anyplace to look for a crack?
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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yes, the block being cracked will have no effect on compression. |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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If the block was cracked, would I be getting good compression in each cylinder?
My friend was watching the exhaust ports with the exhaust manifolds off while we ran the engine. He said each port was firing good. The intake manifold gaskets were really hard and brittle. There was a piece by the water jacket that was messed up, but I don't know if it was from when we took off the intake. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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so cracked block then right?
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Ok, I finally got to my engine today.
As suggested, I ran the exhaust manifolds off the engine (but I kept the hoses hooked up to see if water was leaking back into the exhaust ports). No water leaking from the exhaust manifolds. Also, I did a compression test. About 90-120 psi per cylinder. I took off the intake manifold and found no cracks anywhere. As Eric suggested, I also checked the thin area around the thermostat. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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lets think about this logically, water going into a cylinder will usually steam clean the plug, pulling the plugs is quick and easy, look for a very clean plug to isolate if it is leaking in that area.
Do you think the water is entering while the engine is running or when it is not running? if it is exhaust manifolds they will leak into the engine when not running and burn off when you start engine and usually you will be able to tell by studying the spark plugs. With the engine running water can enter obviously thru other parts of the engine such as intake, head gaskets, cracks and so on. it wont enter thru the exhaust manifolds while running, thats why it is important to try to determine when the water is getting in there if you can. If you find an unusually clean plug out of 8 you can start to pin-point where the problem may be. Alot of water indicates a leak in the pressue side of the cooling system such as a crack in the intake or a crack in the block or in the head gasket area. A small portion of water may indicate exhaust manifolds maybe dripping in while not running. First determine when the water is entering and use the process of elimination, were all shooting from the hips trying to figure out the problem. the engine has to be dis-assembled to some point as it is, observing closely on dis-assembly and knowing what to look for will isolate the water problem |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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leo0648
There's 10 ways for water to get in the oil.The 1st thing to do is remove the exhaust manifolds & risers and pressure check them. It's not hard to do,put a garden hose fitting in the front, block off the riser passage and turn the water on if water flows out the exhaust it has an internal crack. By doing this you checked 3 of 10. Then make a plan from there.Exhaust manifolds are the most common leak and the easiest to eliminate. |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Some say it is a gasket, others say it is a exhaust manifold/riser problem.
Dont know where to start! I guess start with Boat Dr's suggestion, then start breaking the engine down. Wow, this isn't fun. At least the weather is getting colder. |
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Saline, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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Don't run it to long, nor should you rev it up. Possibilty of warping the heads. Not likely that it will happen but it is a possiblity.
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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I do not think this is an issue here , less damage than water in the oil.
I would not bring it to 7000 and hold it there ,if you think valves are a problem...... Shove shop towels into the ports on shut down.I would be more concerned of the oil contamination than the valves,JMHO.......... |
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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Boat Dr
The exhaust valve operates around 1200*F (dull red glow)I've had a couple drag race exhaust valves snap the heads off from tempering due to cool air rushing into the open cylinder at shut down. Yes /no? |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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There is a easier simple method. Block off the inlet hoses to both manifolds.
Remove both exhausts, change oil and filter, install the fake a lake, start motor. This is loud and if you don't rev it the fire will stay close to the head. Run her for a few minutes, check the oil.Still no water, repeat the above.This will tell you where the leak is. Manifolds or the risers, My guess is a leak at the riser connection on the starboard side....... |
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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Pressure testing the manifold properly involves removing the risers and installing block-off plates and then plugging the rear hole (if not already plugged). Then attach your hose and charge it. If water leaks anywhere, there is a problem. A block-off can be made of a simple piece of flat aluminum or steel. I've even seen wood be used. |
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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There you go again with your name calling. I would expect that from a child, but most of us are adults here. So how about offering your advice in a more constructive manner. They offer medication for symptoms such as yours. It's called Prozac. Try it and maybe you won't be so bitter all the time. There is a reason that aluminum corrodes at a faster rate than cast iron. When you mix dissimilar metals (iron and aluminum) in a corrosive environment the less noble metal (aluminum) will render itself as an anode. Also, I didn't tell the man that this was his problem, I am merely stated it was a possibility. Especially since his engine does have 1500 hours. He didn't clarify that his intake was iron until after I posted this so chill out. Besides, it sounds as though there are some rather senior members on here who do agree with me. If pointing this simple fact out makes me a jacka$$, well I guess I'm not the only one on this site. I too am installing an aluminum intake on my boat. But I will keep an eye on mine. What you do is your business. Furthermore, oxidation and corrosion of aluminum are the same thing. And the only detection device it takes is the human eye. It reveals itself as a grayish white colored powder. Now don't you feel smarter? You can now go and post this information on another thread and earn yourself some more "Poopah Points". |
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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The exhaust manifolds seem fairly new (0896 are the digits on them).
The boat has been in South Texas or South Louisiana for the past year and a half. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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it is real thin in that area and the engine i did was winterized, somehow a little water sat right below the thermostat and must have froze and put about a 1/2 very small crack in the underneath of the intake, it happens, luckily the block had no damage, you are getting up in the hours and a head gasket would be a good suspect for the leak, also the exhaust manifolds as mentioned
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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