Pylon replacement? Removable floor?

I am in the process of fixing soft spots on the floor of my 78 SN. The soft spots were mainly around the strut/shaft "see threw" plastic screw off hole and in front of the pylon/ near observors seat. I tore out the carpet and found a 3/8 sheet of plywood overlay on what I assume is the original floor. After removing the 3/8 ply, the original floor is fiberglassed from the hull over the foam, secondary, and primary stringers to the bilge/ engine area. There were, what appear to be removable plywood sheets spanning the center gaps (from primary to primary). One sheet was up front (basically from the front of the dog house to about 6 inches behind the battery box --with the pylon going through it). The second sheet spans from under the gas tank area to the back of the dog house (actually the dog house hinges were screwed to it). Both sheets span across the boat from port side primary stringer to starboard side primary stringer.

So here are my questions:
1: Were these plywood sheets in fact originally removable and carpet laid down in separate sections so the plywood sections could be taken out to do work? It would seem logical for them to be removable. Keep in mind that the carpet I removed was one big piece on the floor, with no access for removing plywood sections (The carpet did not appear to be original and did not match the inner gunrails)

2. My engine bolts directly to the primary stringers, no nice aluminum engine cradle like in newer boats and hence no "real" support for the pylon. When I pulled up the floor the pylon was merely bolted through the plywood (one plate on top of plywood and other below plywood, bolted together with 4 bolts) and then had the bottom male nub resting in the female hub which is affixed/glassed to the bottom of the bilge area.

Is there supposed to be some other support for the pylon? It was strong before the tearout, so I am guessing it was in an original configuration, but I want to make sure before replacing the floor and putting down new carpet.

In case you are wondering the stingers are luckily solid. dry as a bone for the most part. A few apots where I had a little bit of wet (less than 20%). I have cut out the rot and will be building up glass to replace it (I am going to try seacast in the one spot that would take too much glass (about 2inches deep by 6 inches long). I must have dodged a bullet, cause by the sounds of it, not many boats of this era have much stringer left. I was expecting a full stringer job. Whew!

Thanks, Hilton

Was the front panel glassed over? Was there any added support for the pylon? or just the 3/4 plywood?

For the rear panel -- was it just floating, or was is screwed to the center cross member? If screwed, did the screws have caps so they were not just bare metal on the carpet?

I have removed large sections of glass from the tops of stringers throughout the length to ensure that the are dry and no rot. I have also cut into the foam in a few places where wetness/ water was most likely (based on wood wetness and soft spots) and have removed sections of foam all the way to the hull. Foam was clean and dry all the way to the bottom, except for front end of bilge area. I dug it out a few inches towards the battery box and all was dry and clean about half way up. Actually there is a low spot in the hull area and I think the culprit is the drain tube between the battery box and bilge is not glassed in very well. I feel pretty confident that I am safe as far as remaining water/ if any goes. I may actaully put some dessicant (damp rid) in cups in the bilge and then tarp over the boat for a few days in order to suck out any residual moisture. I figure doing this before reglassing would makes things extra dry?

Oh yeah, makes me remember another question. I will only need a small amount of closed cell foam to repour where I dug out-- what is the best place to get a small quantity?

Thanks for the info. I plan to use epoxy, as it seems to be the clear winner per discussions on other posts.

Any special concerns since I will be glassing to the original glass in places. I have cleaned everything really well and plan on wiping things down with acetone prior to reglassing. thoughts?

Hilton, Chuck is correct about just making sure the surface is clean. Unlike polyester that really needs a rough surface for a mechanical bond on the old cured glass, the epoxy will stick. Do check to make sure it is glass and it hasn't been painted though!

Please take my advice and do some further checking for rot.

Were are the pictures????

8122pbrainard wrote: Hilton, I would be checking the bottom close to the hull for rot too. The dry foam is a good indicator but water seeks out the low points and just like a roof leak, can come in one spot and travel to another. Just be on the safe side! You don't want to have to tear into it again.

Small 1" dia. holes drilled with a hole saw through the glass next to the hull so you can see the wood.

Hilton, Every couple of feet down next to the hull should be fine unless you see something that is suspicious. Then drill another in between. A normal hole saw is fine. I have mentioned that dry foam is a good sign but not always!! The polyester being hygroscopic will actually allow water moisture to past through the hull from the lake. This of coarse is when a boat sits for extended time in the water. It is the major cause of hull blistering.

Thanks Pete. I will drill the exploratory holes. It does not hurt to look further since I will already be doing plenty of reglassing. Here I was thinking I was one of the lucky ones, but now you have got me worried again.

So, are you saying that when originally made CC would leave actual voids in parts of the glass? I had percieved them as doing a pretty good job. The floor layer is ridiculously thick and the cap/sides of the primaries is just as good. Secondary glass layers were definately thinner, but still at ~1/8 inch thick in the places I cut.

I do realize that they actually drilled holes into already glassed stringers (for example screws to hold up wires, screws to hold down seat brackets). These holes alone have probably put the moisture content of the wood well over 8%, even though it is still clean and hard.

Does this mean that even if I seal/ reglass over what appears to be clean solid wood that is obviously no were near a kiln dried condition of say 2-5% moisture (I am guessing that my stringers are at least 20% moisture content merely from sucking humidity out of the midwest air for 30 years, not to mention lake water wicking through holes), then I am setting myself up for expidited rot and a complete stringer job in a few years?

OK, so I guess I am more freaking out than just worried.

Regarding the pylon -- is there supposed to be a pin that goes through the cup to lock the pylon in place, or are you refering to the "pin" as the male part of the bottom of the pylon, which sits in the cup? Sorry, I am not familiar with the correct naming of all of the parts -- I am still new to this.

My cup is solid. Some surface rust, but that is all.

I have also been thinking about installing a crossmember (2X6) just in front of the pylon, so the 2 front bolts of the pylon will bolt through the new plywood and the crossmember. Since I have already cut out the primary cap in this area, I was thinking of notching out the primaries to fit a crossmember. I know that this would not be original, but I was thinking it would be an improvement. It just scares me how little is supporting the forces placed on the pylon.

OK, cup is good, so that will be the positive I think about thoughout the day until I can get home and drill some new exploration holes.

What are your ideas on installing a crossmember? cons that I am not considering? It would mean removing the top 1-1/2 inch of each primary for a 5-1/2 length in order to recess a new crossmember in place, but I don't think this would sacrafice any strength of the primaries. I think the crossmember would actually add some good structural support for that front section of the boat, provide some added support for the pylon, and also provide some extra support for that front section of plywood ro rest on. I would probably glass in the stringer cut outs and glass the crossmember separately and then install the glassed crossmember and glass everything together (hence glassing over the screws I use to install the crossmember).

ideas?

The cross member isn't a bad idea but on the other hand I've never seen or heard of the original failing. My Tique does have a 2x8 under the floor but my stringer job was done by the PO. I haven't stuck my head down on any other boats of that era! If you do add the cross member, pre glass it before the install so you don't need to stand on your head and work on the bottom side up side down!!

Are you planning on Green Lake this summer?

Hello,

I was just getting ready to ask a question about the rear floor hatch and saw this post. I'm in the process of removing my engine/tranny for my fiberglass man to completely re-do my stringers and floor in my 77 Ski Tique and was wondering how the floor looked from the factory as my floors and carpet were mostly removed when I bought the boat a couple months ago.

My fiberglass man is asking how I want the floor behind the motor box and if I want it to be removable for easy access if needed. I've seen pics on CC fan (brochure) and also from natique skins but they seem different, one pic has one of those 8 inch round hatches and the other seems to have a removable section behind the motor box between the 2 primary stringers.

Also, what did the battery compartment between the 2 front seats have for a top/lid? Was it a piece of wood with carpet on top of it?

If anyone has pics of what the floors looks like, I'd love to see them.

thanks in advance,
Patrick

Pete just wanted to give you an update.

I drilled four holes (1 inch) evenly spaced on each side, near the edge/hull.

All 8 eight holes were clean wood below.

Thanks for pushing for me to check, now I have more piece of mind that I won't be ripping back into the boat in a few years.