overheating....help please |
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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Posted: May-18-2008 at 9:15pm |
went out to try to get the boat in the water for the second time this year. First time prop guard in the trailer was too close to the new acme 540 i replaced. Fixed that
Started the boat up, checked the new circ water pump for leaks(none), the strainer was full of water. Pulled off of the trailer and temp gauge was 180-190. Took off and it hovered around 190-200 and when i stopped in went to 210 and rising after 5 seconds . I shut the engine off and got back to the dock. I took the RWP off and checked the impeller which had been changed close to the end of teh last season, looked good. I had, the day before, tightened all of the hose connections using a 5/16 socket. We had just put a new thermostat in. Took that off and it looked stuck. Put the boat back in the water without the thermostat and .....the battery died and it was pouring rain...said the hell with it for the day. Am i missing something. do i just need to order a new t-stat? See how much water the RWP is pulling using the bucket test???? Look for blockages at the intake??? thanks in advance |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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Double check to see if the RWP is on upside down. I have done this about 20 times in the past! Finally I wrote "up" and "down". That would be my first recommendation. Next, take teh stat out and put it in a pot on the stove and see when the stat actually opens.
My bet would be the RWP upside down though. Todd |
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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todd,
i am pretty sure it is on right. I had it marked from last year. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Shawn, Do the bucket test. Take the hose off the through hull to put in the bucket just so the strainer is in line too. One thing about the bucket test that a lot of people miss is to first purge all the air out of the engine before you start counting. If there is a restriction some place, air is easier to push past a restriction than water is. Keep the garden hose running in the bucket for awhile, stop the engine to refill the bucket if needed, then do the test.
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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pete,
when you say through hull can you help me out. do you mean the intake on the bottom of the RWP or the hose that leaves the strainer to the RWP. What is the right time on the bucket test? 30 seconds? the other question i had was when i took the RWP apart and inspected the impeller there was only the rubber O ring, no paper gasket. Is that right? thanks for your time in advance. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Shawn, Yes, the hose that goes to the fitting through the bottom of the boat. 20 seconds at 2500 RPM for 5 gal. is the rough figure. The "O" ring should do it.
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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can i put the boat in the water,disconnect the hose going to the thermostat and measure the time that it fills the bucket up at 2500 rpm. If = to 15 seconds that tells me that the engine is getting enough water, and that the strainer, hoses and RWP are ok.
Then i could pull out the thermostat. If it doesn't run hot i would know it is the thermostat. If it does run hot i would know that it circ pump or a problem with the engine, a blockage somewhere etc.. would be the problem If it does not fill the bucket up, then i would know that i have hose problem, a air leak etc or something causing not enough water to get to the engine. Pete i think you are the only one looking at this what do you think. I think it would be nice to have a thread like the alignment thread that went through this all and could help you trouble shoot things to look at if the engine isn't getting enough water too it vs if it is. If i was an expert enough i would try it i just don't trust myself to get everything correct. Pete, I think you are the only one looking at this. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Shawn, I can't see anything wrong with your method and people do do it that way. You should still suck out of the bucket and pump through the engine like you mentioned just to check for possible blockage. I still have this feeling that you are sucking air from someplace.
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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alright, here is the new developments.
First put the boat in the water without the thermostat. Still overheated. No leaks around any of the hoses. Did the bucket test(removed the through hull fitting) got the moter to 3000 RPM and it did not suck all of the water up, left about 2-3 inches in the bottom. Took the RWP of and noticed that 2 of the bolts wer stripped and would not tighten. One bolt had a nut on the backside to tighten down. We have now replaced the hull hose to the strainer, the hose from the strainer to the RWP. My question is this. Do i need to go ahead and replace the strainer as well as the RWP. I hate to drop the cash on the RWP but would rather get it done right and not worry about it. thanks!!! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Shawn, With the stripped bolts on the RWP, there is a good possibility that it was sucking air through the case. I'd get it fixed before you condemn the strainer. It may be fine.
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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pete, got the pump fixed today. I really hope this is the problem. I am also going to take out the engine block plugs and the exhaust manifold hose and look for blockages.
Any suggestions as to what else????? shawn |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Just cross your fingers!! What did you end up doing to the pump to repair it? |
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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had hexlocks put in where the bolts used to be. $65 at a machine shop. Better than 263 at my local dealer
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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pete,
still overheated. Have changed out and tried everything except a new RWP. dropped it off at the marina today. they are going to use a laser to make sure what the exact tmperature is and see if we missed anything. My guess is a new RWP is in my future. I am over frustrated. Shawn |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Damn! I appreciate the frustration! |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Shawn, I feel your frustration, but you're in good hands with Pete. The only thing I could add is that you probably won't see a leak with the engine running because it'll be pulling in a tiny air leak...often a small enough leak to not drip with the engine off.
Have you checked the rubber seal in the strainer? They can be replaced for a few dollars. |
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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greg,
pete has been great. Sometimes i guess you just need to pass it on to someone else to look at. we have tried everything. Replaced the through hull fitting hose, replaced the hose from the stainer to the raw water pump, changed impeller, o ring and gasket on back of RWP. Changed circulating water pump. Had RWP machined and hex nuts put in to ensure tight seal and to replace one stripped bolt. The only two things we didn't do were change the strainer or buy a new RWP. After 2 weeks of "work", my dad and I were both frustrated with it. I know we could have taken the hose off the RWP side of the strainer to see if it was the cause......but we just said the hell with it and sent it to the dealer. So i think it is the gauge.....or I need a new RWP. Will find out tuesday. by the way....my dad dropped his 82 in the water and it fired up first start with no mechanical problems. .....Lucky him! Thanks Shawn |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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At least you have 2 boats! I've been driving mine around the garage for weeks?!!? LOL
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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ordered RWP today.
I have learned a whole lot through out this all, but now just want the boat to run. we'll find out on Saturday. shawn |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21184 |
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Shawn, hopefully that new pump will get you on the water! It sounds like you eliminated anything else that could have been drawing air, so my bet is that youre in the clear now. I may be interested in your old pump if you want to part with it- shoot me an email: TRBenj@gmail.com
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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diagnosis: Raw Water Pump.
Talked to the mechanic today was not overheating. He did make a comment that it consistently ran at 180 and that he took the thermostat out and it ran at 140. He said i needed to get a 140 thermostat instead of 160. I don't know if i agree. What do you think? by the way. got a good deal on the RWP(with the recommendation of Eric) at Jack Chamberlains in flordia. 236 plus 11 dollars shipping. The mechanic said he spent 2 hours on it = 120 bucks. I find that really hard to believe since we changed most of the hoses, circulating water pump, thermostat, impeller, RWP gasket in the same amount of time. Thanks, will pick it up on sunday to run my new....now old.....acme 540. shawn |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21184 |
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The 143 is the correct 'stat for your boat. That will have it running at 160. The 160 will allow it to run closer to 180, which is a bit too warm. Strange that it ran at 140 with no stat at all. That seems hot. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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the old rwp gets the best of us, i had one last week that wasnt pulling any water and it baffled me for a minute, but i started going through the motions, pulling hoses, running water through the system cause i thought i had a clog. pulled the pump and the seal looked good. told the owner for ***************s and giggles to buy a new pump and wouldnt you know it, it pumped water. these pumps will pull air first if possible then water, it seems to be overlooked quite often on these overheating issues...it got me
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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eric,
you are absolutely right. I don't know if we overlooked it or just wanted to believe that it was something else that would be .......less expensive. I have learned a whole lot out of this and I guess for a guy that has no history with mechanical things I now know how to troubleshoot overheating issues. I am still confused on the t-stat as 1/2 the people i have talked to recommend the 160 and 1/2 recommend the 143. thanks as always for your help eric. shawn |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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no problem Shawn, my vote is for the 143, it happens time and time again and the value of these forums are not only a time saver but a money saver, some guys have chased overheating problems for a couple years and they have never of thought the pump seal could be the problem, i spent 4 or 5 hours on this guys boat and and wont be able to re-coop the cost, so it was another lesson i learned
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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just to let you guys know, the boat ran great this weekend. Never overheated and ran like a champ. The new prop made all the difference in the world. The whole shot was better and ran great at all speeds. Never got it wide open but we cruised at 35mph around 3000 RPMs. It ran so smooth with zero vibration. Didn't get to ski as I was trying to teach my wife to pull a skier this weekend. We made a bunch of starts and stops and turns. She did great.
We took my 4 yo little girl on her first camp out at the lake, so we did get some serious tubing in, so I would recommend the acme 540 for all the serious professional tubers!(ha,ha,ha) winter projects completed: buffed boat out, restripped and stickered most, seat skin changes, new prop, circ pump, RWP, all new hoses. All worth it to see the smile on her face behind the boat. Now we will work on getting her up on skies this year. thanks for all your help p.s. Pete i changed the pitot tube on the back of the speedo that was working to the one that was broken.....it filled up very quickly with water after I started moving. Gota find a new one now. [/IMG] |
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shawnmc
Senior Member Joined: March-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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adamt
Gold Member Joined: July-18-2007 Location: Orlando, FL Status: Offline Points: 927 |
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That's Good News!!! Which T-stat did you end up using? 143 or 160? Boat looks great! Now you have a picture for your avatar!
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-Adam
1973 Skier |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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I do like the Monster towers on the 2001's it takes away the angular lines of the screen to some extent.
Sounds like your problem was the thermostat not the pump. Having a spare RWP wont go astray though. I pulled the RWP on my 2001 today impellor looks new. I like the way it has a oring seal on the body. Pete or somebody is there a easy way to tell in & out on the pump. Mine has a couple of markings on it a (0) and a (2) with a small arrow above it. I have forgotten already which way it came off. But I think the (0) would be outlet??? |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Lewy, I found some nice pictures in a post by Tim. You should have the same set up and I hope this helps. BTW, the screw mentioned is the small drain screw (1/8" pipe) in the side of the body.
RWP direction |
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