A 351w (stroker?) from scratch... |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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maybe you should look at what the wall thickness is for tubing because that is what they would have ordered and that is going to be about .080" max for what the OD has to be to work with all of the HEI guts. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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So is that an assumption?
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Helix angle is the same, and its the same gear for the 302-351 in general just the materials that maybe different due to cam.
Its a .530 shaft which is the largest diameter available for ford dist gears. No reason is should have been bent but I got a vice and a dial indicator so should be easy enough to give her a few spins. There is not a whole lot of bend that could be there and still allow the distibutor to slide into place but of course it wouldn't take much. Cam research is recommending a bronze gear, although a steel one should work I was planning on getting one bronze to put in for now and keep my eye on and then a steel one to put in at the end of the season if the bronze one works and gets me that long. Either way the steel was backordered so I got a bronze on the way to arrive tomorrow. So far everyone I talked to says to switch the gear grease it up, drop it in, and run it and not to bother pulling the engine and looking for missing teeth or anything of the like. So an oil change and filter change and thats about all she is going to get before the next attempt as long as the dist shows to be straight. I did talk to Eric Johnson about another prop today and while he is a little worried that I am pushing the limits of the one inch prop shaft he is going to look into making me up a 13.5x17 rh x 1inch shaft diameter which they make usually but in a 1 1/8 configuration.... |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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The shaft is hollow only so much as the helix drive for the oil pump shaft has been formed into it and that does go up past the gear area. The gear area is the .530 I quoted before but does taper down after the gear to my guess is .467 which it needs to do to drop into the block and engage the oil pump drive. I dont know how big that opening is but my guess is there is not a lot of room for deflection without binding up.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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how much up and down play is there? pull the cap remove the rotor pull on the t-bar type piece the rotor attaches to and how much movement do you have? should be very slight. The thrust is upward when the gears engage and it starts to spin so if by chance the gear is pinned to the shaft in the wrong spot you can be pinching it and putting it into a bind when it is thighten down at the collar.
I would check both the shaft with out the gear installed and with the gear installed for runnout over .010 is bad. Measure in several places across the teeth along the gear face just look for the high spot and also the smooth section across the bottom of the gear, might even pull out the oil pump drive and make sure that's not bent causing an issue. Double check and make sure there is no slop in the shaft to bushing of the base only about a .002" max for GM specs. runout shouldn't be more than .005"-.008" on the gear less for the shaft. with the broaching operation of the hex in the shaft it gets quite thin across the corners and doesn't take a whole lot to bend that section of the shaft. If by chance you support the distributor base when you drove out the roll pin and had the gear unsupported then you bent the shaft, you need to support the underside of the gear as you drive out the roll pin, this is done by a slight gap in the vise with the roll pin directly over the gap and supported on the lower section of the gear that is smooth and up to the gear teeth if you don't you bend it very easily. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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i think he hit the after burner button and didnt tell us lol
thats one of those find out what the problem is before the new one goes in |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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It appears someone borrowed my dial indicator stand, so runout measurements have to wait till tomorrow but by eye its not bent and I have decent eyes for such things. I did not bend it taking off the pin, but chris's caution is a good one.
I used the off day waiting for parts to get in my second to last triathalon training session and then started to work on the temporary stereo install. I say temporary because I still intend to rework the front area eventually for a built in box that will hold two subs and have a few other tricks, but this will do for the rest of the year and maybe next if I get lazy. Once again sorry about the photos I have been stuck with just the phone alot lately... Caution 2001 owners do not try this at home this is not the stock front end setup, none of this stuff will fit on your boat. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Well the dist shaft was straight and the new 108 or so dollar gear showed up as promised. I had to drill the hole for it but I got her mounted up. I covered it with cam lube, stabbed it, tightened it down, checked to make sure I had a little play (about .030) then rotated the engine a few times with the starter, everything appeared smooth but I figured might as well pull it real quick and make sure nothing was already showing wear. That was a good idea because the sticky cam lube picked up a few flakes of metal left over from the last carnage. So I cleaned the dist and blasted it with cam lube again and repeated the process a few times after everything looked clean and clear. No wear or marks on the gear otherwise and everything turns smooth.
I pulled the filter and poured out the contents, there was a lot of metal fillings in that oil, very fine... looks like the filter did its job for the most part. Figured I better drain all the oil so that was the end of getting it started back up last night, I couldnt warm it up obviously so I figured I better let it drain all night through the hose through the drain process. I fully expect it will start right up when I get it to the lake tonight after refilling the oil and putting on the new filter. I am figuring to idle around for an hour then check progress on the gear and make sure all is playing nice. When I took out the number one plug to find the compression stroke I noticed it was real white, with a couple speckles. So lean at 3500 and the speckles are hopefully left from when the dist was moving and possibly causing detonation issues either way I got some tuning to do. Now people with the Hiteks is it normal that the powder coat on the non water jacketed portion of the tubes leaving the heads is now completely burned off already? Thought I had a manifold leak but in reality that exhaust was smoke from disintigrating powder coat... |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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I believe thats normal- after seeing my hi-temp paint burn off my PCM's (actually, it still is burning off as theyre installed on my Tique and it does NOT smell nice), I asked Hitek if the PC was rated for the exhaust temps and the answer was no. Thats why I opted for the cerramic coating. Good luck on the test run, take 2. Let us know how it goes! |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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White is not neccesarily bad, but yes, some investigation is in order to ensure your good at all ranges. If your NOS is only NOS, not NOS+GAS, then I would be very concerned about being too lean at WOT with NOS on. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Joe did not have that issue with mine,still look as good as the day they came off the airplane............Boat dr
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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But yours are polished, not powdercoated, right? |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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I hope they wouldn't aren't yours polished to start with? |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Joe, I just thought that was "shiny paint" But for the price I paid,114.32, shipping included I got the cheapies.......HA HA HA........Boat dr
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Not NOS only its a wet system with Nos and Fuel Solenoids feeding spray bars in a plate under the carb. I was actually very concerned about making sure I did not end up NOS rich and thats the reason for the completely overkill fuel system, the kit recommends putting a small t fitting into a rubber fuel line to tap off enough 6.5 psi fuel. Thats not what I did, there is a 3/8 inch line running directly from the adjustable regulator to that fuel solenoid. Both bowl feeds and the fuel solenoid should have plenty fuel. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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skier49
Newbie Joined: April-10-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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How is the new stringers and floorboards working out? Do you notice any difference in the performance of the hull? Looks like the motor and transmission is running great. This was a great project. I learned a lot watching you rebuild your boat with out using wood for the floor and stringers.
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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Joe, you must have a helment cam..
Looking good.. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Well so far so good on the bronze gear.... she ran all day today a little over six hours on the meter, stereo and engine loud and proud. My nieces got thier first ride of the summer and almost as important she is staying in the water in the shorestation for the first time this year...
And I have no idea where those empty beer cans in Gregs arms came from .... |
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MaddMarxx
Platinum Member Joined: June-29-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1741 |
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jOE...Its good to see someone is enjoying all the hard work you put in to your boat, it looks great and it sounds Bad a$$ and the tower looks sweet also, GREAT JOB!!
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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MM; Can't believe you are still up at 5:39am. Must be still up.....I know you ain't getting up that early.
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Another day another full tank of gas down, all around good boating today. After around noon the lake was a mess from the boat waves so we gave up skiing/boarding and we did our first parasailing surprisingly enough everyone lived to tell about it. At the end of the day I opened up to a oily mess in the bilge, shouldnt be a big deal just a mess must have loosened the oil pressure sending unit/ fuel pump cut off switch when I pulled the filter after the gear melt down. Got to work tomorrow too bad gonna be a great boat day...
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Still going, I have some more time on it and behind it so feel like I can now answer some of the how does it feel type questions.
The boat appears to be really solid, I havent rechecked the alignment yet but all seems well. I have banged it through some considerable waves including 6 hours of parasailing on a boat infested labor day, and while I have not kicked any full speed power turns yet I have made a few at 45 and all is well. It feels more solid in everyway than it ever has, how that compares to stock with less rot than I had I don't know. The hull is quiet for the most part, I do not miss the foam in the floor at all for anything in the noise reduction arena. there is one area that I plan to foam and have not yet where in the right waves I can hear some slapping and that is the area in front of the drivers foot rest. I just have it boxed in with carpeted plywood for now and behind that its bare uncarpeted hull. Its not bad but its noticeable sometimes. I dont get that on the other side where there is carpet glued over some sprayed on foam. The speakers on the tower make it sway more in the serious rhythmic waves than I would like, although its certainly no worse than any of the other tower boats I have been on, its just different when it's my boat. I dont see how it could be any more solid though without creating stress points so its probably right as it is, it is solid enough for me to climb on and jump off with no worries just rocks under speed through waves. Pretty sure I lost 60 rpm off the top when I added the speakers as well, weight or wind related I dont know. The skiing wake at 32 is better than it was previously with two people in the boat anyway I havent had more than that in there skiing, although it looks like the rooster tail is significant so if I lost another section of rope that would become an issue. Wakeboarding wake when only two people are in the boat is needing some weight even for recreational boarding, don't know if the boat is overall lighter or just the more weight up front is changing it but its not much fun without some weight in the back which before was optional. So far very happy with the overall results.. will turn 600 hours on the boat tonight, 18 in the past week. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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The tower sway really concerned me on CQ's ride when we slalomed half the lake back to Norwegian bay last reunion.
Why is the PP gauge crooked????????? That is really bothering me Joe. |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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It is much more noticeable from behind the boat and there was quite a bit of sway on that heavy chop, particularly every time sissy boy fell and we had to swing back around to pick him up. Joe, those speakers are HEAVY! Have you taken them down and put them back up yet? Fun stuff. Fix that Gauge! Everything looks great, good job dude! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Betcha it's so he can see it. The top of the tach on the pre-87 2001s is blocked by the steering wheel. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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I thought the whole point of the PerfectPass was so you DIDN'T have to look at the gauge???
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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I dont look at it while pulling skiers or boarders but I watch the rpm incessantly when I am running wot, and its my only tach. It doesnt belong there though I just have been too much of a wuss to cut a hole for that and for the stereo remote as well but I need to get that done and put the old tach back. Reaching through the wheel to change speeds on the perfect pass isnt ideal either. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Well finally got a GPS, and she does break 50, no final numbers yet as I still have a few changes to make over the weekend and this week but I am starting at 50 or so ...
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Well I think I broke it, it really didnt like the new prop dropped 850 rpm off the top end fouled up the plugs, and sounds like it broke something.. may have flown to close to the sun on this one I think my wings melted, will know for sure tomorrow afternoon.
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