buffallo bfn floor question

8122pbrainard wrote: Hollywood wrote: Pete, with the turtleneck under the long sleeves in July I can't imagine you need much more insulation! Kev, Wait until you get older!!

HW...don't forget the initials embriodered on the cuffs too.

Sorry Pete...couldn't resist.

john

Pete, with the turtleneck under the long sleeves in July I can't imagine you need much more insulation!

Pete-


I think I missed some details:

Outside is Steel siding. Then 1/2" of foam. 2x6 studs with R-21 fiberglass in between them. Inside has the 1" foam and then plywood ( I forget the trade name of the wood thats on the inside).

If I ever build or gut a house I will spend big on the insulation after seeing how well this works.

Tim

8122pbrainard wrote: kevin719 wrote: but on a large building it would not be very cost effective to do the whole thing with the two-part. Kevin, Since you're in the field, do some BTU loss calculations on adding a extra R10 to a 2x4 cavity and see what it comes out to. With large or small buildings and todays cost of heating, the pay back may be less than you think!! The spray foam has been used on industrial/commercial roofs for over 30 years.

Warning- Off topic!!

Pete-

The real payback is putting 1" of foam over the studs and then your wallboard over that. The studs conduct heat/cool. My dad did this in his shop and it is very efficient. Cool in the summer, and not hard to heat in the winter.

Tim

No pbrainard I am indirectly in the field. I repair construction equipment(mostly drill rigs nowadays) but I just pulled up the foam and did a little reading,and have been to many jobsites over the years.I was basically trying to say to h2oloo to check with the guy on the type of foam since there is a open cell out there being used.For some reason I am thinking that most insulation contractors use the open cell around here.If you can get a high enoung rfactor for the codes and not to mention the fire codes.I would think that the water(oxygen)activated foam would be more fire retardent.And its definetely cheaper.I could be 100 percent wrong (wouldnt be the first or last time)But I will check.And if he can get it done for a case of beer?That is great!I am estimating at least 400 from us composites to finish my floor.What are your thoughts on my foam not expanding when I got to the bottom of the cans? The only thing that I can think of was too much heat from pouring in the same cavity?? I know it was mixed good from the color change.

No pbrainard The water based foam was the stuff that I pulled up from a contractors supplier. For them to use the twopart closed cell the material would have to be mixed at the nozzle like the smaller version at handi-foam.On larger construction sites(where they typically contract out the insulating with a sprayer ect) I believe that they do use the open celled water poly.I also believe that they use the 2-part around the outlets and electrical so no water will be absorbed. I work for a structual engineering firm and will ask one of the engineers when I return this week. But h2oloo if your guy uses the closed cell and will do it for a case Also I know that the building codes will be different in all areas but on a large building it would not be very cost effective to do the whole thing with the two-part.

The spray in insulation used around here is a polyurethane closedcell and is recommended as a vapour seal and mould and mildew preventative. I had him shoot a plastic bag full and when it sets up I will weigh it and float it on my pond. He said to leave it there for a week and he bets that it won't have picked up moisture.We'll see!

I checked out the handi-foam site and they do have a 2 part sprayable closed cell it says for insulating around electrical outlets,hottub repairs,ect.. I guess that every supplier has different foams. It seems to be a good price (sprayer included) but I wonder about the strength?? I also wonder if you can epoxy over it without melting? But I still do not think that this is used for buildings,it would cost way too much. I may be wrong but It would be more practical to insulate a building with the open celled water based poly.

kevin719 wrote: This is a closed cell urethane foam.I think that it was originally supposed to be for floatation and needs to not soak up water,but. the water will get trapped between the foam and wood if it is not sealed properly! I dont think that the foam will really help with flotation unless you fill the boat with water.But it is good for sound deadening. I would think that the insulation used for inside buildings would not need to be water resistent but I guarantee that there will now be several post from guys that know the chemical makeup of each type! I am sure that anything(sealed) or nothing but air is better than heavy waterlogged foam.

Wrong, The urethanes foams used by building insulating contractors are the same 2 part closed cell.

If you are doing a ply floor, I've mentioned it before that I prefer injecting the foam into the cavity. Foam in a closed cavity self skins at the outer surface forming a added barrier against moisture. I've used at least 20 of these large 600 board ft. (50 cu. ft.) kits through the years and find them very easy to use. Smaller sizes are available. The kits come with several nozzels ether spray or injection. The injection nozzles can be used with 1/4" poly tubing to extend deeper into the cavity.

handi-foam

" The Handi-Foam SR systems meet the Coast Guard Specification requirements for flotation in Title 33 Code of Federal Regulations, Paragraph 183.114. Contains no formaldehyde."

There is virtually no waste from mixing up small batches guessing at the correct amount or having to overfill and cut down the foam to level it out. The mixing is done at the nozzle.

Even if you are not doing a ply floor, I would use the Handi-foam with the spray nozzle.

Do the calculations and compare the pricing to the "marine" flotation foam you are using.

I'm really surprised that no one here has tried the method yet! Brian (Fins) even posted a pictorial of the guys over on fiberglassics.com using it on their restorations.

Did you consider getting a home insulation guy to spray it? Is that the right type of foam? I was thinking this because I know on a Friday afternoon I could visit a building site and get the boat foamed for a case of beer. Just wondering!

I figured that's what you meant...but had to ask! LOL

I used 2lb...several here have used 4lb. What's your weather like and what size batches are you mixing? What I'm getting at is smaller batches are easier to get fully mixed before it kicks.

Hey Kevin, I did use 3 16lb kits plus half of a little kit from west marine. I'm not familiar with the 'guts' of a SW, but they should be similar. I'm also not sure what you mean by the 'first gallon'. What I used came in 2 one gallon cans, and I didn't notice any difference from the top of the cans to the bottom. The 2 parts do have to be mixed thoroughly and quickly. I found small batches easier to get completely mixed.

I don't know how much I used where because I poured the bottom all the way around and added to it rather than finishing a compartment before moving on.

Hope this helps!