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Tranny removal

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emccallum View Drop Down
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    Posted: January-20-2009 at 8:05pm
I have decided to remove my tranny from my 95SNOB, 550hrs, and fix the front seal leak. I did a search (found a pretty funny one with some good exchanges b/n Eric and 79 a few years back). Eric, you have some thick skin! Glad you stuck it out.
Well, my question is: As best I can figure I need to support the motor with wood or a bottle jack under the exhaust manfold, undo the shaft, then remove the tranny. Should I remove the bell housing and tranny together? Or will it matter getting to the front seal? Should I replace the damper while I am in there? Just wanting to know the best approach to keep from recreating the propeller! thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2009 at 11:29pm
Fk. I wrote you a nice 4 paragraph explanation from start to finish and it vanished....i dont know if i have it in me to do it again.

let me build up some power and i will re-post
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 12:00am
with the PCM trans its just as easy to remove with the bellhousing attached because you should replace the damper since it will be out, the Damper is a PCM part only and you have to buy from JA or DIM or the CC dealer. the damper you recieve will be a 13.25 circle unlike the triangle one you will be removing, it is the direct replacement and when its on the flywheel it will protrude out at the bolt circle, PCM says pull it in with bolts, I say shim it out with good hard flat washers...you'll understand more when you recieve the damper. leave the damper finger tight and tighten after the trans is piloted and installed, this will align the new damper, which is crucial. to tighten the bolts you have to go through the starter hole or drill your bellhousing and plug.

to remove trans, loosen front mount pinch bolts to swivel, remove rear engine mounts via stringer or at trans, dis connect 4 prop bolts and loosen exhaust clamps at the risers, this of course is with the engine supported at the manifold with a bottle jack or a 4x4 across the gunnels and a come along. they really are pretty light at the back because the front mounts are near the center of the engine, if im in a hurry i will lift by myself and have someone else block it for me...lift high enough so the trans clears the prop shaft coupling.

I'll add more to the topic in the AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 12:56am
Eric - Last year I used some flat head (counter sink) style screws, temporarily, to center the damper. Replaced them 1 at a time with the shoulder screws & it centered OK. Just another way to do the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 10:42am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Eric - Last year I used some flat head (counter sink) style screws, temporarily, to center the damper. Replaced them 1 at a time with the shoulder screws & it centered OK. Just another way to do the same thing.


atually you didn't center what needs to be centered. Just because you center the outer bolt cirlce doesn't mean you center the spline on the pilot and it is the pilot that needs to be centered not the bolt circle like you did. A bolt pattern will never center a concentric hole NEVER. If the part is gauged and held to an extreme tolerance you can come close but no one manufactures that way it's to expensive to gauge and hold statisticly. normally the bolt cicle is gauged/held to the center hole with one hole of the bolt pattern used fo rotational location only.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 10:59am
So the 'tighten after transmission assembly' is the only viable option. That means drilling a hole in the bell housing. There is no other access to the bolts, on a PCM 1.23 anyways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 11:12am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

So the 'tighten after transmission assembly' is the only viable option. That means drilling a hole in the bell housing. There is no other access to the bolts, on a PCM 1.23 anyways.


guess you don't have a starter to remove and have access that way like Eric states.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 11:16am
Guys, thanks a bunch, that is just the information I was searching for! If i find some time this weekend, i am going to give it a go.
Eric, your first post reminded me of the time my Dad sent me a letter while I was in college. He wrote: "I would have sent more money, but, I already licked the envelope!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 12:49pm
I recieved a Borg Warner last week and the inner gear was cracked in half on the pump, no heat smear in the pump as to where it wouldve locked and snapped the gear, i called the guy and he told me that that trans was noisier than his port trans, i told him to take a look at his damper and sure enough it was spider cracked. these dampers serve a big purpose and will tear the sht out of a trans, they snap reverse plates, they knotch clutch hubs, and if mis aligned it is a sure fire pump failure, it allows a side load on the front bearing and the bearing will start to walk and pre-load the pump gear. then fail the pump gear
Im not saying im perfect but most the warranty work I see is created by improper installation, and alot of it is from a mis-aligned damper or a mis-aligned trans. the transmissions fail for a reason, initially they may have failed from the damper and then they have the trans rebuilt and it comes right back with the same failure. lets face it, i cant talk to every single person i rebuild a trans for.....you guy's should know better because the info is provided,
I did a couple v-drives and the guy's maintance man from his business did the install, sure as sht, after 4 hours one of the trans failed, the guy takes it to a local marina and has the trans pulled, now because he thinks its warranty, sends me a bill for 1200.00 luckily i know the marina and have talked to the service manager in the past, I call him to find out the rear stringer was rotted and created a side load on the shaft, the trans leaked at the seal and the pump failed...no attorney can talk his way out of this one...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 1:10pm
I feel certain much of this will make better sense once I have the tranny out and can examine the damper. It would certainly suck to get the aligment wrong and tear up the tranny, when all I wanted to do was fix a small leak! Thanks guys!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 1:14pm
A dumb question: Why isnt there some kind of alignment tool that can properly align the damper prior to putting in the tranny? Or is the tranny a loose fit without a dowel pin?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 1:33pm
it would be nice if there was, the pilot in the flywheel is larger than the spline area and a tool would not work, i have no idea if they align the dampers at the factory unless they go through the starter hole, its just one more thing you can do to to avoid a problem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 8:28pm
I wasn't able to get a wrench to turn through the starter hole. Maybe I just didn't try hard enough.

'79 - Have you actually done this yourself?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 9:30pm
I use a 90 degree swivel box end rachet wrench, havnt drilled a bell housing in a while
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2009 at 10:49pm
Thanks Eric, That's news I can use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 2:23am
well, I pulled the tranny today. Took about 1.5 hours. Not too bad. The leak does not appear to be my front tranny seal, but, my rear main seal. I went ahead and bought a new damper plate and I am going to install it.
Two questions: if my my tranny is dry should I go ahead and replace the seals or leave well enough alone? Also, I did a search on rear seals. Kind of confusing. I have a LH rotation motor (1.23:1 tranny and Rh prop). So, cant I just get a seal from an auto store? Or should I wait and get one from SKIDIM. Also, can I get to the seal with the engine in place? I cant see why I would need to remove the engine?
I put the boat in my shop and ran straps from the exhaust manifolds to the lift, and that worked great. Thanks in advance!

ernest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 9:47am
im not answering on the trans seals, cause sure as sht, if you start messing with swapping the seals they will leak....truthfully if it were mine, unlike the rear main, not much labor to pull the trans, i wouldnt replace. but i would do a good trans flush while it is out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 2:50pm
I agree the seals stay as is! this really isnt a very hard job. I think it is easier to remove the tranny, then the bell housing.
some pics of the project...




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 2:53pm
I wish I had a lift thingamigigger like that...nice shop!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 2:57pm
you need quick dis connects too on that BBC lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2009 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

you need quick dis connects too on that BBC lol
Greg i couldnt resist


Oh so cold?!!?   LOL

Flywheel forward...reverse rotation; which end goes to the front?    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2009 at 4:35am
Hey Eric, the new damper they sent me was round, just like you mentioned in a previous post. I had some old hard thick flat washers that I used to shim it. I used a crows foot extension to tighten them through the starter hole. Pain in the rear, glad I had a helper to turn the engine. The damper seems to extend out near the ring gear teeth. Is that normal? I hope it doesnt interfere with the starter.
I put in new strut bushings, and needed to shim the strut a bit, all that is left to do is align.
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