learning to barefoot |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Good tip guys, Ill keep it in mind. I assume thats what youre trying to do by "snapping the handle in half", Tim?
Brad bought me a nice neckbrace earlier this year, but I lost the darn thing the first time out. Not sure how it fell off, but it was getting pretty dark and we just couldnt see it. Im sure it would prevent some neck soreness from the backwards heel catches! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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Snap the handle in half then stick it up your candy ass TRB.
Do you have a picture or video of a LL attempt to post? I'll bet your feet are too wide. Step offs (front and back) for the win! You can tell Tim (bhp) is also a show skier. |
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behindpropeller
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
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Yes.... Trying to snap the handle pushes the handle against your back and also pushes your shoulders down and your butt up. When you teach people stuff you can only tell them 2 or 3 things..... the rest of the stuff they forget...tell somebody 5 things when you are teaching them....then tell them to repeat what you just told them, they usually only get the first two or three steps. Breaking the handle makes you do three things and remember one..... |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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I compiled a video of clips learning the back deep from last october to last week. I have a hundred or so clips that never made it into the video due to the constraints of time. This did not come easy for me. What I lack in ability I made up for in determination:
Learning to Barefoot Bacerds! |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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Dude-you have GOT to put together a video for BFC...you might win the bigmoney! Do It!
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This is the life
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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Roy, excellent compilation. Congratulations on your progress and success. Being in the middle of that process, I felt every one of those falls. Especially the video you posted the other day with the long line work. I'm not to the long line point yet, but my neck and back hurt watching every one of those falls.
Quick synopsis of my progress status. End of 2007 season: Just one evening, hooked up with TRBenj and his trainers. Not much progress, bouncy glides, a few feet plants, no stand ups. Summer 08, Using sneakers, after surprisingly few attempts, actually stood up and went very short distances, Everyone flamed me for using sneakers so I ditched them. Limited success that summer up until getting hurt with a real bad split and quitting for the summer. Probably 5-6 outing total. Summer 09. Went up to Brads (Barracuda) the friday everyone was in GL. He put me in those rubber shoe type trainers. After about 5-6 failed attempts, I had three long runs, quitting because of the end of the lake, not falling. Brad gave me the tip that made a huge difference, which has already been stated here. Don't stand up by pushing down on your chest, stand up by swinging your legs in and down and feet down, all simultaneously. Worked like magic. Also ended the painful splits of trying to stand up with legs spread wide!! Rest of this summer: Back home and back on bare feet. (only 3-4 outings since Brads, 5-6 attempts each...I have to wait till evening and run out of daylight) Hit almost every start, but not steady on my feet yet. I think at this point its just a case of fine tuning body, leg, rope, feet position. I'll be there before summer is out. Question: What do you guys mean by break the handle: Ends up, away from back or toward back? Good work Roy!! |
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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you've got to keep the handle in tight to your butt as you roll over and start but also just as you're getting up you need to let arms out straight(but still keep it close to your back or butt) I've seen alot of people who "chicken wing" a backdeep have continuous problems-they can make it but they can't do it consistantly- you need to let the arms out straight- see Roys video
arching your lower back is what gets your butt up/ cup off the water and then bend into a "hiking the ball" type of position- don't try to stand right up...thats why heels catch-standing too high during the acceleration phase- stay bent and keep face/chin close to the water, start to bring feet together under you(ski on your feet) until you reach top speed- patience---at this point top speed is only about 30 max til you are nailing every one then slowly increase the max speed to 35...then bump it up more once the skier is obviously in control...longline I usually ski at 38 to 42...you can ski slower backwards due to more foot in the water |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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For me the "deal makers" were:
-long relaxed arms -get the feet planted fast; avoids bouncing -wait, wait for speed, feel the pressure on the feet -when it is time, pooch the ass, press (medium) on the chest - bring the feet in and keep the head, low, low low for a while. - ski it away... Next for me: knee bend, and relax the body, starts behind the boat, and enjoy the ride...bacerds! |
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Kristof
Grand Poobah Joined: October-08-2007 Location: Bree, Belgium Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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A few pics from last weekend...
My buddy Bert... After that, my first attempt on the long line. Nailed it right up to planing my feet: face plant! LOL Bend head backwards: OK, arch back: OK, sit up on ass: OK, ... Plant feet: OOPS... I'm realy stable on my butt, everything fine, but then I slowly try to plant the feet in the water and...oh well... keep trying It was a great weekend with some great footing!! I'm hooked... but my ass hurts like hell at the moment LOL... |
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- Gun control means: using BOTH hands!
- Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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Nice work Kristof! Take it slow, you will get it.
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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Good Kristof!! nice pics...I hope I can get my boat soon in the water to start practicing again!!!
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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nice job Kristoff. Try your deep start with a handle and 5 feet of rope on the boom. Get that wired so you get up every time, and then go behind the boat.
Take your time on the plant. Most beginners stab their feet in. You can get away with it hanging on the boom. Also wait for full speed, set the feet in gently. Looks like spring has sprung in the Argentine! Where's Kapla? |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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^^^^that's good advice Roy is doling out there.
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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I wasn't using that piece of advice myself so I offer it free of charge to Kristoff!!! LOL....Now where are my five-finger shoes...ROFL...
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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Went out and ripped a set on a 100 degree no wind day in the Sacramento River Delta. Lots of progress on the back deep, even tried a couple behind the boat. Hit my reverse toe-hold which has been mocking me:
Hot Summer Footin' |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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Roy, do you notice that when you bring your left foot up to the toe strap you bring your leg straight forward, but then your right one goes out to the side first... I do the same thing and really need to focus on just getting on one foot the proper way, both sides.
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C-Bass
Platinum Member Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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Okay as a non-footer, this may be a stupid question. But on those back-deep starts...how in the #&%# do you keep the water from giving you a nasal enema. Everytime I watch one of those starts, it looks like you would've drown by the time you even start to plant the feet...It's impressive though watching you guys come up out of the water.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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Your chest pushes the water out away from your face. Your head is "up" and looking away from the boat path. You can breath just fine and even open your eyes! I still tape my nose shut with the 3M stuff backfoot100 has recommended, I have very annoying allergy problems.
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Mark Mel
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 583 |
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I used to get sinus headaches - pretty much every day. Also a stuffy nose after skiing or footing - I called it lake nose or lake face because it felt like I had half the lake up there.
Then I went and bought this; Sinus Rinse I recommend it to anyone with sinus, allergy or frequent cold problems. Rinses it all out. I haven't had a cold since I started using it the middle of last winter. |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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It is a crazy start, I will tell you that. when your face is in the water, which is only for a moment, you are so slow it doesn't get in your nose, once you plane out you are riding the chest and your face is out of the water. Once when learning, trying to push off with the chest, I stuffed my face in the water and got about 28 MPH of water up my nose whick blasted up my ear canal, rang my bell like vertigo, and then gave me a 24 hr headache/earache until the water drained out. Never do that again. Riding backwards (bacerds) is BADASS. No 2 ways about it. Not easy, but a blast when you get it! |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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"fish bowl head" Like HW said, you can start to breath pretty quickly. Some people asked me the same question and I said as soon as you see my feet leave the rope, I can breath. Just doesnt look like it because of the spray. First few times out this summer working on my back deeps, I got terrible fish bowl head. I cant use my nose to breath for the next 48 hours. One time it was really bad, people at work thought I had pneumonia. I have since used one of those old dopey nose clips people used to wear swimming, but only because I havent gotten to the pharmacy for the tape. It embarrasses my son, who usually has a friend along. Between my suit, make shift neck brace, goggles and nose clip, I have more personal protection equipment (PPE) than a bomb squad guy. However, I am suffering no ill effect or pain from my outings now. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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I use it too to beat back sinus infection to which I am prone, and have been even before I started footing. GlassSeeker always wears a nose clip. |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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At my age (54), I dont have too many more ambitious barefooting goals. Not likely you'll see me worrying about front to backs, back to fronts, rear toe holds.... But when I was younger (20s-30s) plain bacerds barefooting was something I always wanted and never accomplished (no boom, no teacher, no clue...) So when I hooked up with more youthful CCFans, I was excited to give it another shot...(one more thing in my life that wouldnt have happened without CCF) It was that one unfulfilled goal. I am pretty much there now and its a hoot. I love the starts. They are the kind of thing that the uninitiated see and go "what the #@%& is he doing?" Definitely a scarce sight around these parts. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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C-Bass
Platinum Member Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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Makes sense I guess, thanks for the clarification. You're right though, it looks really bad with all the spray, especially since your face is right in the middle of it. I assume the neck brace is for those falls where you flip backwards (which is really forwards, or with the travel of the boat), and your neck looks like it would get some serious whiplash?
The BF bug has yet to bite me, partially because of all the "injuries" you hear/read about from people doing it or learning it. However, it is starting to look more and more appealing and I'm afraid that if I started trying, I wouldn't stop until I was knee deep in debt from the purchase of a boom, suit, and many gallons of gas. |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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Of course it doesnt always go according to plan... (from Roys "Learning" video above.) Definitely looks like a snootfull here. (Note: in forwards footing they talk about mastering the 3-point stance on the way to standing up. I don't thing that applies to bacerds starts) |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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C-Bass
Platinum Member Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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^^^
Yeah that's a perfect example of what has kept me from anxiously starting my barefoot career. Of course I wouldn't jump right into trying back deep starts. |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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first in regard to allergies: KENALOG...just one shot lasts a year or two...it completely knocks out allergies.
water up the nose is a whole nuther issue...nose clip: problem solved and does not look as dorky as tape! plus it works better. either of them do not look as dorky as getting up and having to wipe your nose everytime. also if Michael Phelps can wear one so can I. Going backwards has a certain amount of DUES that must be paid...Roy has paid his dues. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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I'm on sinus spray cocktail of Nasonex and Astepro, when combined have a 40% increase in performance (so the Dr. says) and I've never felt better!
Roy, your legs looked very wide on that LL attempt, ripe for a groin pull. You can get away with the super wide 3-point shortline but LL you don't have the power to pop off the water like that either. |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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75: that is the EXACT time I took the snootful and nearly burst my eardrums from the inside. That's how HARD I was working to get up! Now with a little arch in the back to pooch up my ass, my troubles are gone.
Interestingly you can see how little "bite" my shoe skis have on the water. I am not sure how it gets like that, but you can see how hard it was for me to get up with no leverage. |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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Hollywood: I've been on the sinus rinse and the Astepro and neither really have done too much good or bad. You are right on the legs too wide. My trouble is when I bring them in closer they either get pushed out anyway or my feet point down too much and I stick a foot in. I did jack my groin a bit yesterday. LL back deep is vicious, violent and lonely! |
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