73 Skier Restoration |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Tim,
That is on your composite. I don't really see a need for that on ply, do you? |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21190 |
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Mike, youre correct- thats with the Coosa. We didnt order the material to add extra layers to the top and bottom of the ply on the Skier... but now Im wondering if we should have. We may not do it on this boat, but assuming I use wood again, I'll likely be doing it on subsequent ones.
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Tim, Glad to hear you are up for another stringer job........... pencil my Tique in the que for the next few years. She is small, one you've done before and something you and I could bang out quickly (in a week I hear)....... Steve |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Keegan,
The pylon cup and on some models the front lifting ring mounts at the stem are the only two places I can think of that you will not find wood. As mentioned, just build the spot around the cup back up to the original thickness. Wait until you get going on the stringers as you will probably have lots of small squares of glass left over. BTW, you could have asked us first before grinding! |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Better budget in another half gallon of epoxy!!
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I ask so much you guys bounced right over it I am not too worried about it now. It did not move and is still not loose so whats a couple more layers of cloth? Live and learn. That is what I am doing everyday on this project. Thanks as always! With the bombarding of posts I have put up at least one good question had to slip by the goalie! |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21190 |
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Ha, you better get in line now- its a long one and its growing! Just kidding, you couldnt afford my work. |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Tim, I think you and I agreed on a rate, but did you consider that to include material? or not?
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21190 |
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I think it would. $10k for a stringer job, minus $2k for materials = $8k in labor. $8k/200 hrs = $40/hr. Not sure I could survive on that, but if it were a side job, Id consider it. If I could find the time, of course!
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Is that starting with a completely assembled boat? and returning as such ? Not including the "while I am in there" list.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21190 |
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Ummm... Id say no. I dont think the 200 hrs would cover interior disassembly, engine removal, etc. The 2k in material wouldnt include new carpet or other pieces that I tend to replace while Im in there (steering and control cables, wiring, trim, hardware, etc) either. I guess it would include cutting out the floor and stringers and removing the foam though... maybe my hourly rate is too low! Im not sure I could replace every single piece of wood in the boat for that either- the transom, lifting ring areas, etc. Of course, Im assuming wood stringers and floor- not composite.
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I will work for $40 an hour. Sign me up! I am surviving on way less than that now.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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We are close to the same page.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Looks like you all have been considering this....... good to keep in mind for later for my Tique; I have very sensitive skin! Ha!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Steve, You haven't been spending enough time on CCfan! Keegan's starting the project but others in this thread aren't "considering". They're pros because they've been through the stringer jobs before!!! When are you thinking about doing yours? Get the pictures posted when you start! |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Pete:
Ha - The "considering" of which I spoke was hiring out their services, not doing a stringer job......... seems they had been calculating what they would charge and do it again for.......... I think the fumes would be getting to you all if you would take it on commercially. And Pete, My time will come...... I have a 78 which I will enjoy for a little longer before she gets torn into.... |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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After this skier there is a 68 Barracuda I have my eyes on to restore and sell. I have definitely thought about setting up a shop, hiring some hourlys and going at 3 or 4 boats at a time. You get a break on all the materials if you buy in bulk so those costs would go down the more boats you can do at once. There is a big market out there restringing Correct Crafts and nobody has really figured out a way to make it affordable without doing the work yourself. Maybe not nobody I know there are a few members that have done stringers for other people for money.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21190 |
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I agree! Im not actually considering it- its one of those things that once you go through, you ask yourself, "How much would I have to charge someone to make such a PITA job worth my time?" For most of us, its a labor of love! Keegan, I think you'd be hard pressed to make any money on restoring Correct Crafts. Theres a reason why most of us choose to do it ourselves for $2k rather than sub it out for $10k. Not many of us have that much dough to throw around! It doesnt help that a stringer job would cost several times the value of the boat itself. When it comes time to sell, most people wont appreciate how much time and effort went into a restored boat. I sold my fully restored Ski Tique last year and have experienced this first hand. I bought that boat for $750, was very smart in where I bought my parts and materials, did all the work myself, sold it for top dollar, and barely came out ahead. Unfortunately, there just arent that many people interested in paying top dollar for one of these boats, regardless of the work thats been done to it. You'd be lucky to break even on a fully restored example, taking into account material costs only. Many times that wont even be recoverable. Dont even think about trying to get paid for your labor! |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I will be upside down to extremely so on both of our boats. Just on materials, no time accounted for.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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True that guys- I have lots of ideas and most of them suck. yet I can't stop having them.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I have been drawing stringers all day and will be cutting them tomorrow. I still have some reservations about the notches and where they are located. What is up with there being a notch right at the engine mount? That seems like a terrible design, and I cannot see putting it back like that.
Time to start ordering glass, but I need my CPES asap so I am ordering that Monday. Jamestown wants $243 for a 2 gallon kit(includes $22 for shipping). Rotdoctor wants $177 before shipping, but do not calculate shipping cost till you buy and pumps come free with a 2 gallon kit. Who are you guys buying CPES from? |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I got mine from Jamestown. I don't think it was that expensive though. I also did not get pumps. It is 1:1 so I just pour it in a mixing cup.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Keegan,
After having just dealt with all my notches, I am not sure I would do it again. I am committed on these now, but next time I think I would use something like Tim B is talking about and and Okie is doing now. Wedge braces in between the stingers will allow a much easier and, I think better, lay up on the top of the stringers. Either way is going to work fine, but in the end I think the wedges would save you some headaches, and be about break even on the time spent. The notches would be nearly impossible to snip out of the glass accurately prior to wetting, and if you do like I did and just cover them and remove them later, they become a gassing point when the epoxy goes off and create a few bubbles where you don't want them. Despite making a slit in them after the first roll. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Thanks for the input Mike. At that price the CPES is more expensive than my lumber!!!! They are making a killing on that stuff. Its more expensive than the epoxy resin too. I knew it was expensive but would have never guessed it would cost more than the wood itself.
Even though I drew all of the notches out on the boards, we did not cut any of them today. We got all of the stringers cut in 4 hours, but left out the notches until I figure out what I am going to do. Using a plywood floor is going to raise the level of the floor so I have to figure out what to do about that. My Brother in law did all of the cuts. He builds cabinets so I had to keep reminding him that it was ok to just measure to the 16th. I don't know how many hours I spent drawing the stringers yesterday but it was a lot more than 4 hours, and I still have to scribe them to the shape of the hull, and do a complete dry fit. That is my goal for the week. Oh and a few more hours of grinding before I can do that. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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FrankT
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2006 Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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I am not familiar with the CPES product. I typically just thin with solvent to make a penetrating version. West has some good information if you want to go that route. Here is the link: http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Glues/WestSystem/Thinning/Thinning.html FrankT |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5795 |
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jamestown will match anyones price, I just paid $157 for a 2 gallon kit. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Good to know. I will call this afternoon and see who has the best price on CPES. I always love a price match guarantee!
May buy a power hand planer today for shaping the stringers but then again I might just go with an old school one. Not sure how much use I would get out of it after this project, so saving a few minutes might not be worth $40. What do you guys think? How much time does it take to scribe the stringers? It is sunny and 52 here today and then snow again tomorrow. WTF! |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Get the power planar. Worth their weight in gold.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Good to know thanks Mike. The big hand planer at harbor freight is $15 and the power one is $40. I may take the hand planer back for the power version based on Mike's comment. Seems like a pretty neat tool. I looked and looked but I had to buy a lot of clamps and a couple more packs of flap discs so I was feeling it in the wallet already.
I went around and marked all the rest of the areas I need to grind down with a sharpie. After everything has a layer of dust on it, it all looks the same. This should be the last day of grinding until I get to the other side. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Exchanged the manual for the power planer. I figured the extra $22 was well worth the saved time. ***************e weather for the next few days so not too much work going to happen till next week when it will be reaching the lower 60's. Still have about 2 hours of grinding left before I can start to shape the stringers to the hull. Still debating whether to use the original secondary stringer layup or the 77 revised layup, and the notching.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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