It should be true

phospher wrote: Unfortunately for Christians, there is no place in the books that says when you get to the new world and you develop your three branches of government and you have a modern society you can jettison all the barbarism I recommended in the first books(leviticus, exodus,deuteronomy). Why is it that no one ever says these books are immoral? Christians just say they don't have to do this anymore because Jesus brought us the doctrine of grace. But Jesus also said that "Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" If this is the best book that we have, as it says in proverbs, people should be beating their children with rods. You decide what is good in the good book. You cherry pick these books based on your own ethical intuitions. When I hear Christians say things like, "There's nothing you can say that will change my mind". Just imagine something like that being said in medicine. Statements like that prove that you are not taking any state of the world into account into your beliefs. Truth is, this stuff can be found in the New Testament also. "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." -Luke 19:27

Hi Phil,

The piece of scripture you are referring to in Luke 19 is a part of a larger story that shows people how God is calling us to join His Kingdom to make a better world. The verse you reference is an illustration and not meant to be taken literally. Sort of like when people say in jest "I could just kill you." The same with the Proverb you mention. The Proverbs are similar to other ancient writings common to middle east wisdom literature. They are pithy sayings that are not meant to be taken literally but to make a point. The point in this Proverb being: a child raised without discipline is spoiled. The point is not to beat your child with rods.

Jesus indeed said that He came to fulfill the law; and he did. The point of the law (the old covenant) was to give people a way to live. It was practical, the ten commandments of Deuteronomy are the summary of the law. Some of those laws are archaic and even barbaric sounding. But it is unfair for us and our understanding and our morality to go backwards and lay that morality at the feet of an entirely different culture.

Jesus fulfilled the law by getting people beyond the legalism of it. In other words Jesus doesn't want us to do good because it would break the law to not do good; Jesus actually wants us to know we are loved and then to love, in so doing we fulfill the original purpose of the law which was to "Love the Lord with all your heart." Jesus fulfilled that by then saying "and love your neighbor as yourself."

Scripture should not be used one verse at a time to prove or disprove. Again, I will say that the totality of scripture, including the New Testament, points to love. The cumulative teachings of Jesus all point to how much God loves us.

Phil, for me, it is always about love, forgiveness, mercy, justice. These are common themes of Scripture, and I am incapable of applying those qualities in my relationships with others without God.

That being said, I don't want in any way to imply you are not a good person, that you don't act with kindness. I'm just saying for me, that to live in peace, to experience kindness, to be forgiven, and to be forgiving . . . it's God.

It really is good talking you, thanks for your time,
Chuck

Chuck , you did well in that explanation.I know that this thread has only helped to explain why I need God in my life.
Having a higher power only adds to the happy, joyous and free relationship with the mortals that inhabit this big blue ball.
Kinda like owning a wooden boat,some opt out for a less labor intensive mode of water travel, plastic/fiberglass.
While the wood requires a different mind set,not all will be willing to enter this world without changing their basic attitudes of care, maint. and operation.Most will choose the easier softer approach, boats and life have a lot in common......
I am proud to be a woody owner as well a member of Gods flock....................Billy   

boat dr wrote: some opt out for a less labor intensive mode of water travel, plastic/fiberglass.

WoW! Sniff, Sniff. That hurts Billy!

Billy, did you feel like less of a boater before the Dart came along?

edit: nevermind, it's not going to make a difference.

I've enjoyed reading what most of you wrote in this thread, especially phospher, The Lake, Okie Boarder.

God wrote: Carry On

I have also enjoyed this thread. It is good to hear both sides interpretation. As Billy said it lets you revise your own beliefs. Sounds like those wooden boats are becoming their own religion or just a new sect of the Boating Church.

Lewy, you hit the nail squarly on its little head.
Not better nor worse just different.........
Wood I sell Karen's plastic boat ............
Wood I buy another GRP classic..........
Wood a wood chuck chuck if a wood could chuck wood........
Wood you.........
Wood you not if you had a wood knot........
Wood boats, wood ski's, wood you...........

I wood if you wood too......

Whatever.

boat dr wrote: Having a higher power only adds to the happy, joyous

boat dr wrote: Kinda like owning a wooden boat

How this can be interpreted any other way besides: Wood happiness > Plastic happiness I don't know... Thanks for judging and applying your beliefs to everyone else once again.

Wood changed my wife's perspective too. Wait, what?

Phil, how about the sciencetoligist i know? if someone would be kind enough to highlight the post a few weeks back. and to think we could all be wrong.

eric lavine wrote: Phil, how about the sciencetoligist i know? if someone would be kind enough to highlight the post a few weeks back. and to think we could all be wrong.

The plethora of more-or-less incompatible religious concepts that mankind has invented from Creationism and intelligent design to Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Scientology, Hinduism, Shinto, Shamanism etc, are all basically indistinguishable, all stories made up by man and using iron age philosophies.

Eric, your beliefs sound like Free Masonry. BKH

Phil, I was worried all weekend, Touched by an angel? and i guess i also wanted your opinion on Bigfoot and UFO's too, or even parrallel universes

the one truth is that we have the bible and yes by faith you have to believe that jesus was born and did die for us and he was the son of god . there are christians that have come from many faiths such as catholosism,budism,islamic.scientology.and so on n so on,how much harder was it for these people to beliseve as opposed to someone born here in the states,they heard the truth and they believed through faith and they will be rewarded for it ,and no eric you dont pick where you go when you die,at that point the life you lead and what you believed will make the differance,there are a lot of people sitting in the pews of churches who will be surprised when they meet god

for the true believers it will be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!