351 carb engine schematic |
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: February-18-2010 at 12:41pm |
I was hoping that someone might have an electronic copy of the engine schematic for a Ford 351 carb engine. I have 99 sport nautique and it seems to be having fuel delivery problems. It started and idled for about 10 minutes but then suddenly stalled out. When I tried to restart it, it would only start and run will using starting fluid. It seems that no fuel is getting to the carb.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated. I'm new to working on boat engines and didn't want to order the new fuel pump before getting some veteran advice. Thanks, Travis |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Travis,
If you feel it may be a fuel pump issue, "T" a pressure gauge into the line before you go and order a pump. See what the existing pump is doing. |
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SUNAPEE CROW
Senior Member Joined: February-06-2008 Location: Methuen,MA Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Take a quick look at the filter that is built into the fitting where the gas line goes into the carb. It can plug and create the symptom you are describing.
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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try the reference section, here, there are manuals from many years...if not the same the closest one will suit you...fuel system is quite the same in the 351w...
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Ok so I have checked spark and it seems very strong. Checked vacuum at the bottom of the fuel pump, it also seems strong.
The only thing that I cant check is fuel pumping out the top of the pump into the carb because I can't seem to losen th efitting running from the hard line into the bottom of the carb. Is there a trick to this without bending that fuel line? Also if fule is in the line can it be assumed that the top side of the pump is working? I can see fuel spray into the carb when I manually push the throttle cable and when the actual throttle is pushed forward. The engine fires up but only runs for a split second. This seems like a fuel delivery issue but I cant figure out were the problem is occurring. Any ideas? Thanks for the advice. - Travis |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Do you have a safety lanyard, or kill switch.The effects of this switch in the off position will be the same as you describe.
Sounds like you are loosing power to the coil after the release from start mode.Try a jumper wire directly to the coil this will bypass all switches and safety systems. Leave the carb and fuel system alone till you resolve possible problems with ignition.......... |
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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Texasttk55
Sounds like the ignition has power when the key is in crank and not in run. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Another call for the good old multimeter!!
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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HHHMMMM it's 99 wouldn't the fuel control cell's and the relay's be a better place to start than the ignition?
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bubbaskier
Groupie Joined: February-10-2010 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Anti-Syphon Check Valve
Somewhere from the fuel tank to the fuel pump should be an anti-syphon valve. On my 1984 SN2001 the valve is on the fuel tank. This valve allows fuel to flow in only one direction. Find the valve, remove the valve and see if there is any debris in the valve restricting the flow of fuel. I have had to clean mine once in sixteen years. Also the springs in these valves do wear out allowing the gas in the fuel line to syphon back into the tank causing starting problems, ie: lack of fuel. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Corky, Welcome to CCfan. Tell us more? Boat? Now, you actually have the operation of the anti-siphon valve backwards. No big deal as I was corrected once as well. The anti-siphon is there so if there is a break in the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump, you won't fill up the bilge with gas. It checks the siphon but isn't stong enough to check the pull from the fuel pump. Gas siphoning back to the tank is prevented by the internal check valves in the pump itself. |
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bubbaskier
Groupie Joined: February-10-2010 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Thanks for the correction on the syphoning. I won't jack the thread; I will post some details of me on a new thread sometime this spring when it warms up and I can get some pictures.
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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bubbaskier, welcome to the site.Great place to learn and to share the do's and don'ts of inboard boating.
But be forwarned as to info you post,"my brother told me" and " I heard you could do it that way" are not valid here. You will be called out on misinformation, and applauded for that little short cut you dicovered.Please share, pics ,info,listing for junkers and all CC issues...........Billy |
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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The boat will continuously run with the addition of starting fluid but as soon as I stop using it the engine dies. This seems to indicate a fuel issue correct?
It just seems odd because I can see fuel going to the carb so it really isn't adding up but Ill check the coil with a mulitmeter. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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If it runs with starter fluid, then youre correct- you have a fuel delivery problem. You can put away the multimeter... for now!
Where are you seeing fuel going to the carb? Hopefully you dont have a rubber hose with an inline filter between the pump and the carb... thats a big safety no-no. Pull the flame arrestor and work the carb by hand- if it sprays fuel when you advance the throttle, then youve got gas. If that wont keep it running, then Id say you have bad gas. If you dont have gas, then you need to trace the problem back to the source. The 2 likely culprits would be a bad fuel pump, or a blocked fuel line (look at the antisiphon valve first). |
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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Trick for the "hardline" at the carb.
Line wrench 1" wrench or maybe a cresent PB Blaster and possibly a small hammer |
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I can see fuel spraying into the carb when I work it by hand at the carb as well as when I advance the throttle. Things seem to be pointing to more of a fuel issue.
Just to recap when this problem first occured a few weeks ago I was taking the boat out for the first time in 2 months and before launching I added about 10 gallons of fresh fuel. The boat started and idled for approx 5 min and then abruptly died. Since then this starting and quickly dying (within 2 seconds)problem has persisted. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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When working the carb by hand, is there anything you can do to keep it running?
If not, and you have a good supply of gas, it sounds like you have bad gas. Smell it- bad gas smells like paint thinner. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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leave the hammer for your head and not the carb. the trick is tightening the flare nut slightly before loosing it, 5/8 line wrench for the fuel line, 1" line wrench or open end to hold the carb's fitting, once the line is loose then use a 6 point socket or a 1" line wrnch to remove the other fitting put that is only if your replacing the filter if not there's not a need to remove it from the carb. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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i would suggest disconnecting the fuel pick-up hose at the fuel pump suction side, hose that goes to the fuel tank. Get a new section of hose, attach to the fuel pump, stick the other end in a a fresh jug of fuel and then start the boat might have to help it alone until the old gas is out of the fuel bowl and fuel line but then it should take off and run by it's self after a minute or two, if it does, it's a vent issue or siphon valve issue or bad gas or both.
if it still won't run then it's most likely the fuel pump. |
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Ill check those options tonight. Thanks for the info.
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Anyone know the diameter of that hose off hand (connecting to the bottom of the fue pump)? Id like to pick it up on the way home from school today.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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by bypassing the tank you take problems at the tank out of the equation and narrow it to the fuel pump or carb. Another think to check is if there is a filter between the pump and carb, and this encludes one that might be in the carb, but they need replaced this can cause a flow issue as well as that is what seems like your problem is.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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think the hose is 5/8" fuel line or maybe it's 3/8" Tim where you at?
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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The feed line going to the fuel pump is 3/8" ID.
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Great, thanks Ill pick some up this afternoon.
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Texasttk55
Newbie Joined: March-23-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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So i pulled the line at the bottom of the fuel pump and put a new one on which I ran in to a fresh gallon of fuel. It hiccuped a bit but then started to run fine. The only problem was it died when put in neutral.
This may be an effect of not running enough good fuel through yet it but either way the old fuel did smell like paint thinner so that was at least part of my problem. Any advice on draining 20gal of fuel? Once again thanks for the great advice. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Id siphon it out of the tank and into some empty gas cans. Id run the boat a little while with fresh gas before you make any changes- the carb was full of the old junk, so Im sure theres still some of the old stuff in there.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Whoever takes drain oil might take your old gas too. There are couple garages around here who run waste oil heaters, we get landscaping services in return for our oil! The solution to pollution is dilution.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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use a can off carb cleaner in the gas to help loosen up the junk in the fuel bowl.
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