Stalls when shifting into FWD |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: July-08-2010 at 11:57am |
|
Hello I'm new here, my name is Luke and my wife and I just purchased a 92 sport nautique last thursday. I was pointed here from the2001.com
We used the boat saturday and sunday flawlessly, very happy with our new purchase. Loaded the boat sunday night and headed for a different lake monday. Within the first hour of running the boat on a different lake we began to have issues with engaging FWD gear. If running in idle, REV works great, but FWD requires a quick shift in which it'll cough and sputter a bit, but usually muddle through. Just clicking it into FWD causes it to cough, sputter out and die. Then it will not restart, unless using lots of throttle with the button pulled out to allow for revving, thn a quick shift into FWD. I have 2 theories, but having only had the boat for about a week have limited knowledge to work from. 1. I filled up monday morning at a citgo in a small town and only put 89 octane in it. I did not think this through ahead of time and maybe higher octane would be better, though that doesnt really jive with reverse working normally. We ran 2 tanks of 93 in it the 2 days before because that was what was avaiable on the water. 2. Is there some sort of ignition interupt for the transition between neutral and FWD that could be out of adjustment? I notice that the knob that gets pulled out to free rev the boat rolls to engage the transmission. I should also add that it seems to run like a champ once muddling through this issue, the boat has 785 hours an seems to run very well, but I do not have another inboard to compare it to. Any suggestions??? I don't feel like its a carb issue as REV works very well and when it dies after trying to go FWD you have to clear the carb before it'll restart like it flooded or something. Heres the thread from the2001 I chimed into another thread which seemed very similar. Thanks for helping out the new guy.thread |
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Guys,
Read the thread that Luke linked before commenting. Some things have already been discussed. |
||
79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
well I can't get to the link from work but my first thought is the cables are out of adjustment. I don't see an issue with the octane of the gas, unless there was water in it, but that should have been caught in the seperator, so unless it is old and needs replaced not too worried about it.
|
||
behindpropeller
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ethanol + Water mixed won't get caught in your separator.
I run my tank dry at least once a month to make sure I am not building up the water & ethanol mixture. Tim |
||
|
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What is the process for verifying the shift cable beiing adjusted correctly? It definitely seems like its related to something in the shifting process.
|
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I would start on the throttle side of it, but with the engine off disconnect the spring loaded connector on the end of the cable at the carb. Move the shifter into the forward detent, neutral to the first click on the throttle. Look and see if the connector on the end of the cable and the attachment point on the lever arm of the carb are lined up, if not adjust it untill it is.
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Chris,
Since you can't open the link, here's two posts from the link that may shed some light on the problem.
|
||
behindpropeller
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You might try to temporarily short out your NSS (nuetral safety switch) there are two white wires that go to it on the tranny. The NSS keeps the boat from starting in gear.
Tim |
||
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Tim, The NSS doesn't come to play here. The engine is already running. The NSS only prevents cranking when not in neutral. |
||
behindpropeller
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Wow...your right. Not sure why I was trying to link that to your ignition theory.
|
||
|
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Local boat guru I just talked seems to think its in carb. In the boat buying process I found MD boats on the northeastside of indy that seemed helpful and knowledgeable. I hate to pay to have someone fix a boat I just bought though?
How do these transmissions work specifically. Looking at it briefly leads me to the believe that when the knob rolls it engaged either FWD or REV. There doesnt really seem to be the noticeable clunk into get like I/O's I've dealt with. |
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
well the accel pump isn't in this equation at all. I would do a test to eliminate the cable as an issue. But whiel your out floating, disconnect the cable at the carb and then shift it into gear. If it dies then the idle, timing or idle mixture screws or a combination of them are not adjusted correctly. If it doesn't die then the cable isn't adjusted correctly.
Where are you running the boat, Geist, Cicero, raccoon or monroe? or do you travel a little further out of drag race land? |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The Marine trans is nothing more than a hydraulic pump on the front end. It supplies pressure via the FWD/NEU/REV valve spool to ether the FWD or REV clutch packs. The FWD clutch locks up the input shaft to the output shaft. The REV clutch locks up the input to a set of planetary gears reversing the input direction and then out the tail end.
The odd thing about this problem is it's fine in reverse and the reason I mentioned somethings going on in the trans. IE: if both the forward and reverse clutch packs are engauged at the same time due to snapped plates, then there's a trans lock up issue. BTW, The "clunk" on a I/O is due to the very crude dogs used in the lower unit. They are simply fingers that mechanically engauge with each other. |
||
79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
have you check the fluid level in the tranny?
|
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Well, dragrace land is where I call home, but we boat all over. Saturday and Sunday we were on lake james up in angola indiana (we have a lake house up there, we also bought the boat from dry dock up there) and monday we were on lake freeman with some friends. We also frequent raccoon and lemon lakes when we get a chance. We pretty much hunt for smooth water and a good party. I will try these tests soon. Is there a way to run these things on a hose like I do my sterndrives? |
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Never thought to check the fluid, I'll do that tonight also. So its like an automatic transmission in a car vs a manual like sterndrives.
|
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
yes simular to an automatic. You can run it in the drive with a hose but you really can't shift it into gear without screwing up the cutless bearing in the strut for the shaft. You could disconnect it at the coupling and enguage the tranny without any harm but your not duplicating the same conditions as it would be on water since there isn't a load on the tranny created from the prop turning against the water. If you want to head to Cicero afterwork next week let me know I could come over and take a look if you don't have any luck figuring it out before hand.
|
||
akabulla
Gold Member Joined: November-15-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 649 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Do you have a cut off safety switch up by the throttle on that boat? Maybe there is a short in it that is trigger when you push forward on the throttle. I know it is a long shot, just trying to throw ideas out there!
|
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Well it looks like Dry Dock is stepping up. They've told me to take it over to N3Boatworks and they'll bill dry dock. So far and very happy with Dry Dock Marina in Angola, Indiana. I'm anxious to hear what the pro's have to say. We sure love this boat so far.
|
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Bump to Eric.
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lucas,
I'm glad to hear that you're being taken care of. N3 will find the problem. Don't forget to keep us informed on what they find. I'm surprised that Eric hasn't picked up on this thread yet. Usually he's on site by now!! |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I just picked up on this one, lets see what they say over at n3, good guys btw
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
also, What trans? PCM 40 or 40a?
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'll have to look into the transmission as I do not know what it is.
N3 had it for a couple hours this morning. Said the idle was set to low and the mixture screws on one side of the carb were way off. That seems like an awefully easy fix, but I guess we'll find out if i get time this weekend. So far high praise for N3 and Dry Dock. Far better than some of the others I've used. |
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lucas,
It will be interesting to see if they find more issues! Eric, I still don't understand why it stalled in forward and not reverse! Did the gear reduction in reverse give the engine a mechanical torque advantage and in forward the low idle was just enough to kick it "over the edge" and kill the engine? |
||
rogier
Groupie Joined: September-01-2008 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 77 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Having exactly the same problem on my 1992 sport nautique! I just put the idle very high to get rid of it. My engine is perfectly tuned by the way, also no problems restarting, since it runs on propane. Always very smooth and almost starts before you touch the ignition key.
|
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Issue is not resolved. Boat is back at N3.
PCM 40 transmisssion N3 just bumped the idle when it was in there friday. Debatable if it resolved anything. I'll update as I know more. |
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
cool hand
Newbie Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Brownsburg, IN Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ok, so I call N3 this morning because I've leaving for dale hollow saturday morning (keep in mind I originally took it in on July 9th) and leave a message. They call me back to tell me that now the boat does not even run, and I either need to rebuild the carb or put a new one on. I'm a bit bewildered that they have the boat for 2 weeks and now (the day before I load up for a week on a house boat) its completely unusable and the only options they give me are to pay them to get the boat back running. After calming down and taking a walk I realize they've put me over a barrel and I have to pay them to do the work or not have my boat as they've left me no time to think this through or explore other options. They said they'd have it ready today, so i guess we'll see what happens. I just hope they get it fixed and it doesnt ruin our vacation.
|
||
Lucas Clark
1992 Sport Nautique |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lucas,
I'm sorry to hear about the issue. Did you opt for a new carb or are they going to rebuild the old? I'm still curious about a earlier question to Eric:
Maybe he'll pick up on it and comment. |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
no not really, its pretty vague, the drescription, it stalls,
lets wait and see what they say, id hate to lead him in the wrong direction |
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |