100 amp alternator install problems |
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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Posted: July-13-2010 at 11:48pm |
i have a 94 ski nautique with the 351 h.o. pro boss carbed with the skidim retro electronic distributor kit installed. boat showed it had a weak alternator after doing a few test. ordered new 100 amp kit from ski dim and installed it tonite and it sounds like my starter is spinning(making a sound like a hand held vacuum) while motor is running. its really noticable so i shut it off quickly. checked everything again, started it back up and nothing for a few seconds then it sounded like the alternator was making a funny sound so i shut it down. any ideas here. will call vince at ski dim wednesday to see what he has to say and go exactly what i did. thanks in advance
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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Talked to Vince he said it seems like everything is hooked up right. Could it be a bad relay or bad battery? Grounds are tight. Still reads same output as the old alternator, 10 1/2 -11 volts. Any ways to trouble shoot this low voltage problem?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Are you reading the gauge in the dash? Have you confirmed the low voltage with a VOM or DMM? Get a reading directly at the battery to check it. What type of battery are you using?
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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If you upgraded and bypassed/removed the voltage regulator then you have to make sure the wiring at the rear of the engine is correct. This is usually the case when an amp meter is used in place of a volt meter. Point being I'll assume your internally regulated now and were previously extrenally regulated which requires more wiring changes than just at the alternator.
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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Multi meter? No I'm getting my readings off my dash meter gauge. The battery is a wal mart brand. I took it out of the boat and charged it overbite with a brand new charger and it said 13 volts on the digital readout on the new charger. Put in the boat and it read 12 on the volt meter. Boat ran fine but the volts got lower and lower . They stayed around 10. This was with the original alt. Put the new one in last night, 100 amp and started the boat and the starter stayed engaged all but one time. I do recall the boats starter clicking stuttering a few times when the volt meter was reading real low last week.
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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79 I bought the alt and new wiring harness from ski dim. I have the retro electronic distributor conversion from ski dim as well on the boat if that matters. New alt came with bigger ground bigger postive cable to connect to the starter solenoid . You remove the orange wire from the existing 50 amp breaker and old positive to alt.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Get a volt meter. They are only about $25 for a basic one. You can use it around the car and house too.
Typically when a starter stays running, it's caused by low voltage across the start relay contacts that welds them together. This can be from a bad battery (no deep cycle - bad for starting) and bad cables/battery connections. The meter will tell you what shape the battery is in and also can be used to check the continuity of the start relay contacts. (welded together?) |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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make sure you used the right wiring diagram to rewire and bypass the old external regulator. There is one for a volt meter and one for the ampmeter and they are not the same, so read closely as your either low voltage or back feeding the starter relay.
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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My boat only has a volt meter. Does the volt meter on the dash measure battery or alt volts? I was unaware it had an external regulator. You talking about the resistor the dist. Kit came with?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The volt meter in the dash measures the complete system volts but checking it at the battery plus behind the dash with a meter will see if there is a difference. You are looking to see if there's something causing a voltage drop due to resistance. (bad/corroded connections) I have to assume you got a 1 wire alternator from Vince. Correct? If so, it's internally regulated. You also got the wiring harness and he's also confirmed you wired correctly. Correct? So, let's get back to the battery and start relay. |
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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8122- the alternator csme with a new hd ground which i hooked up to the ground on the motor . good n clean. also comes with a hd positve cable that hooks to the positive starter solenoid. it also has two wires coming from the alternators harness. one red wire which hooks to positive lug on alt, and a green excite wire which i spliced into the boats wiring harness. what the best way to check if the battery is acting funny, maybe a dead cell or its going bad. same with the relay. im going to pull the starting battery here in a few and put a charger on it to see if the volts on the dash go up. also want to see if the starter stops sticking. vince said to smack the relay contacts to make sure they are not sticking.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Best is to get the cheap meter I mentioned then you can check the start relay as mentioned. You never answered what type of battery you have. Hopefully not a deep cycle as mentioned. Get it out, confirm type, hook it up to the charger and charge it. Disconnect the charger and check the volts. You should see about 12.8 on a good battery however the best test is with a load check device. This is a resistor bank that puts a load on the battery for a specific time while you read the voltage. Most auto supplies will do it for you.
You need a VOM or DMM!!! Then start doing the checks I've mentioned. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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I suspect that there was never a problem with the old alt if all you did was check the voltage at the dash. These boats are notorious for "losing" a few volts due to undersized wires and corroded connections between the battery/engine and the dash.
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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ok guys did a test with my neighbor and his voltmeter. test as follows.
battery sitting on dock, hasnt been used in a few days- 12.17 volts battery connected with boat started. 12.00 volts alternator with boat started showed 14.59 volts coil showed 7.92 with key turned over, not started out of a handful of times the started still made a whinning sound all but one time. neighbor said its bad bendix maybe? the one time the starter didnt stick the alternator made a racket, like there was a nut or bolt being bounced around inside. the boat was fine for about 20-30 seconds then the sound from the alt came. shut it down. my volt meter still read 10-10 1/2 same as before. whats weird is that last week after i charged my starting battery my volt meter read around 12 volts. now my damn alternator is sticking and the new alt is making a funny loud clanking sound. what next? |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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go back to the old alt, and see if you achieve the same results, i feel also the alt was never the problem, you need to check the voltage at the positive side of the coil while running...follow also what 79 says and you may have an external voltage regulator under the plastic cover..you may be double regulating the resister and not providing enough juice. I believe you should be seeing around 9 volts while running or the engine will stumble at higher rpms, normally it will idle fine but then fall on its face...i may be off on a few points but someone will clarify.
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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eric i had to splice a wire(per directions) as well as delete the orange wire going to the 50 amp breaker as well as the original orange positve wire that went to the alt. lug. im gonna keep the 100 amp on there anyways due to the multiple amps and stereo system. the starting battery is a wal mart ever start maxx 1000 cranking amps 850 cold. i pulled the battery today and have it on a charger to see what kind of volts it shows on the battery thursday. i can test the coil as well lthursday. im pretty postive there is no external voltage regulator on a 94 ski.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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well the important thing is finding out how much voltage is going to the new coil on the positive side while running, and making sure the coil is a resisted coil, it should say on the coil.
as indicated the starter at times will keep turning due to a low voltage situation there are 2 types of coils, one which requires a full 12 volts and others that need a drop in voltage, and the resister does that job....12 in one side 8 or 9 out the other..the resister acts as a valve but in electronic terms....resist ie. restriction. normally it will say on the outside of the coil. many times i find 2 resisters in line, no resisters at all, and vica versa and it creates problems mostly at higher rpms. at times the tach wire is tied in and if a short is in the tach it will ground out the coil, so if any irregulariities in the tach, unhook it from the coil and try making a run. i say start from the beginning and put the old alt on and start there, but like others suggest a DVM, is a must when doing this stuff and understanding it |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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Coil is external from ski dim and the electronic distributor utilizes a resistor back by the 50 amp breaker. Confused on how I got 14.59 at the alt and only 12 at the battey while on. It was more with the engine off'
what could cause the new alt to make such a clanking sound? Backfeeding from the starter? Will see what the volts re at the coil with the engine on Thursday |
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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charged battery overnite and got 12.78 volts. hooked battery up and the gauge read 12 volts. the coil reading was 7.68 volts while running. the alternator read . 6something. yes, .6something. i tapped the starter a few times before starting and it didnt make a noise while idiling but everytime i gave it gas it would make noise. return to idle it would stop. somethings gotta be wired wrong somewhere or bad grounds i assume.
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thatdude596
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2010 Status: Offline Points: 155 |
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took the boat to fantastik finish and marine to get this mess figured out. kudosto eric for having it fixed the next day! eric- boat runs great except still has a little hesitation out of the hole when cold. no biggie, may have you rebuild my carb this winter. volt gauge reads 13-13.5 when idle, 14 while running her. starter works fine, alt works fine. finally after 2 yrs of this mess its finally fixed. everything works well. btw after you aligned the boat, no more noise when clicking into gear. that made a difference. no more vibration as well. thanks again bro,i appreciate it. gonna head out now to give her a few more paces.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Well, fill us in (or Eric) on what the problem was! I'm sitting on the edge of my chair!! Also, don't forget to add at least your first name to your profile. For the most part, we go by first names here. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned but to me screen names seem so childish?? We are not trying to pry info out of you BTW!!!
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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lets just say i backed up the clock and started fresh, aligned it, set the timing. electrical isnt one of my strong suits and i sighed....only for a minute though
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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SN206
Grand Poobah Joined: February-25-2009 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 2339 |
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???
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...those who have fallen and those who will.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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sn, backed up the clock and took a fresh look at the harness install. pulled all the leads and started fresh. the exact problem? I would say there was a wiring problem somewhere and it was backfeeding the starter and keeping it running when you started, I threw my own battery up in there wired direct and avoided a bad connection....it wasnt charging also and possibly low voltage to the high side of the coil was causing some of the stumble. got it all back together, fired it, no starter sound, whacked it to excite the altenator and all was good.
set the base, and then aligned. i didnt pay attention while i was dis-assembling and thats why i said i started fresh |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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the biggest thing i did was listen carefully to his symptoms, what happened when, what happened where, I asked alot of questions and it seems like 90% of the problem started when the alt was installed. the base was at 7ish and I sort of figured that may add to the high rpm stumble problem.....
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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attention Dic head (79), he got the brunstucky price too.
this one wouldve left 79 in the dust...250 cash...and you know something DH...I couldve hit him for 500.00 cash and he would still be happy, maybe someday I'll fill you in on how to run a business too |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Eric,
Where have you been the last several days? |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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DH pissed me off, i dont know why a guy cant understand that im in the money making business and not the charity business, i do enough on the charity end..
a matter of fact, I took 12 calls, i counted them from the same kid trying to get his trans together, didnt even sell him parts, he went as far as installing the trans and it was locked into reverse, pulled it again and got him straightened out....after all done and said the kid tells me im going to send you a gift card..I just told him dont bother, thats why im here, that genuinly took an hour out of my day I know i dont have to explain anything to you, He needs to go to his boss Monday morning and tell him hey, im not worth 30 bucks an hour so you only have to pay me 15..when you mess with someones livelyhood it gets very irratating. you and i both know traffic is drawn to this site because of knowledge, behind the scenes i do benefit from it but not in the way 79 thinks, the sites advertisers benefit, the guy that knows absolutely nothing about boats benefits and so on the last 3 years were a killer and we made alot of sacrifices and then you get a guy taunting you. Im here for the simple fact that I like helping thats it, but also it is an angle that draws business to me, after all i know this site has came along way, i know im fair with people and i need to be paid, thats how life operates. I know deep down I dont have to explain myself, I never uttered one bad word about the guy in 2 years..sometimes i feel the need to defend because i take this sht very personally. im not sitting in my garage trying to rebuild transmissions, i built a business around it and have guys that rely on me to get paychecks |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I used this thread as an example, that other guy got clipped for 13 hundies and his boat still aint right, i told this guy bring it over and I'll look at it, he is local and went thru the regiment of spending money and things aint right. he is from the site and i truly had 4 hours, pulling the interior doing all kinds of BS to get it right. because he was from the site i thought 250.00 was fair, he took the for sale sign out of the front window because he likes the boat again and has been skiing since. but agin i do have to get paid because i have a family to feed, boats are not life threatening things that need to be working, they are in the pleasure column of life.
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Eric,
I feel that 99% of us on site understand you perfectly. There's no need to get into a full explanation however, it's good to hear it in your own words. Thanks for all the help and you continued/future support I'm sure. |
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