pertronix debate |
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woodboy
Groupie Joined: February-11-2006 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: March-27-2006 at 1:13pm |
I've ordered the pertronix kit for a 79 351 commander prestolite clip down dist. I've read a lot of posts and I'm still confused. Do you bypas the ballast rest or not? One post said their 78 commander didn't have a resistor.79N has made good sugestions and maybe I missed it. How much juice should you have and where exactly do you put a multimeter and what setting on the meter? It sounds like a resistor is a good idea and I would like to run one for reliability. Thanks.. Sorry if I missed the info on other posts. I know this has been discussed a lot.
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Lake Livin' Rocks
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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read the instructions that came with the unit. It will tell you exactly how to test and install, some can be bypassed, others need the ballast resistor. It all depends on the system voltage and resistance for your case, not what someone else has or what they did, coils have different resitances values and thus will effect the voltage that the system has as a whole has. Bottom line you can have it either way, but bypassing the resistor on one that needs the resistor is going to shorten the life of the components and leave you stranded because you have feed the distributor to much voltage and it has shorted out. The ballast resistor effects the coil's output very little, but limits what voltage the distributor's electroincs see. So get a multimeter and test your systems voltage according to the instructions and you won't have a problem in the long run.
I have a brand new Mallory unilite distributor with optical pick-up and run a ballast resistor. |
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woodboy
Groupie Joined: February-11-2006 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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79N thank you for your reply. I know you have replied to these questions a ton! When I save enough money I will go with the set up you mentioned above. For now I just want reliability and increased starting eficiency on a budget thanks again Rob
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Lake Livin' Rocks
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rmcdonald
Groupie Joined: December-30-2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Hi
I installed a pertronix breakerless point system on my Chrysler 383. From memory this is what the installation instructions say. After installing the pertronix pickup in the distributer,it will have a Red and Black wire comming from the distributer this must be connected to 12 volt supply. Red to +12volts, black to ground. Since you are no longer using points, a ballast resistor is only needed if you coil requires it. The type of coil that you are using is what determines if you require a external ballast resistor or not. eg: If you are using you existing coil and it had a ballast resistor in series with it, you must continue to use the ballast resistor. If you are going to buy a new coil you have the option of buy a coil that does not require a external ballast resistor. This will work also. Main this is that you must supply the pertronix pickup with 12volts supply before it goes through the ballast resistor other it will give you problems. |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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I seem to think that not all Pertronix kits are created equal. Some require the resistor and some do not. I agree with 79... read the instructions and you should be fine. Usually, the ballast resistor is used to lower the voltage at the points to avoid burning them (i.e. nothing to do with the coil). For peace of mind, I would indeed go ahead and replace the coil with a high quality unit designed for electronic ignitions. You might also consider opening up your plug gap a bit to take advantage of the better and hotter spark control.
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Jim_In_Houston
Platinum Member Joined: September-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1120 |
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79 is right on. Read the instuctions for your particular kit. They could be different. BTW, some coils have built-in resistors. If your Pertronix instuctions suggest removing or jumpering out the ballast resistor I would not use a coil with a built-in resistor. Use a coil that requires a ballast resistor and then do not use the resistor per the Pertronix instructions.
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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woodboy
Groupie Joined: February-11-2006 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Thanks all. I did not realize the instructions were so specific. I'm going to use the pertronix coil 1.5 ohm I think. I dont think my 79 commander has a ballast resistor at least it is very well hiden if I do. Jim my neighbor is also a happy owner of a 66 and 68 Mustang here in not so sunny northern Indiana. Thanks again Rob
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Lake Livin' Rocks
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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woodboy where are you located in N. IN?
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woodboy
Groupie Joined: February-11-2006 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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79 Nautique I thought I posted this last night but seems it didn't go through. I'm at Tri-Lakes 5 miles north of Columbia City off SR 9. Approx 30 mins from Wawasee on back roads.
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Lake Livin' Rocks
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Jim_In_Houston
Platinum Member Joined: September-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1120 |
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I spent a week in LaPorte Ind. two years ago. Man was it cold - they have a very nice bar/resturant downtown however. We had to leave the bar early one night because of a storm coming in off the lake. Snow was blowing sideways. Craziest thing I ever saw.
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Yak3
Groupie Joined: March-10-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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I just did this conversion on a 79 302 Commander. Works great, I got the prestolite one off of skidim. I put the 1.5 ohm coil on and ditched the resister. Which turned up that one of the springs on the weights was rusted and didn't spring back anymore, dunno exactly what that means, but it can't be good. Greased the new springs that came in the kit and i'm done. Have yet to run it because I'm still working on the wiring harness. Also putting on the 50a conversion kit and alternator. I'm redoing all the wiring anyways cause the wires are real brittle and/or are auto wires someone put in. Anyways, when I did the electronic conversion, I went so far as to take the directions from the kit with me to a marine store and bought the new coil. Good luck.
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Jim_In_Houston
Platinum Member Joined: September-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1120 |
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Hey Yak. How did it turn out?
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Yak3
Groupie Joined: March-10-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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I don't know yet, I have to build the new wiring harness and I had to order the different color wire. It'll be another week and I'll let ya know.
I saw some of the posts by 79nautique about buying the harness from skidim. I talked to Vince this morning there, and he said for my 302 that the wiring conversion kit, would NOT fit my engine. He's throwing in a wiring diagram for me though. I do have to do the whole thing from scratch. |
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Yak3
Groupie Joined: March-10-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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Well, I finished with the wiring harness yesterday. I now have the prestolite electronic iginition conversion kit in and the new alternator with the internal regulator. As soon as I turned the key it started. This never happens to me, I'll do some repairs, forget to connect something, then get it to work right. I also found that the old alternator was not grounded. I talked to Vince at skidim tech support and he said that a lot of those were built with out the ground wire because they assumed the bracket would ground it. So I put a wire on it anyways. The only problem I'm having now is that it idles at 1000-1100 rpm. Checked the throttle cable linkage, idle screw. Reset the idle mixture screws. Still don't know, I couldn't detect any vacuum leaks around the base of the carb, or from the pcv/egr valve. The only thing I can think of is that something within the carb is messed up. So, it looks like a holley rebuild kit for me. The fun never ends. If anyone has any questions on it, lemme know. I can send you some wiring diagrams too.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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Make certain the venturies are not dripping at idle, else rebuild.
Take the cable off the carb... Then make certain the secondaries are forced closed by the linkage rod. Adjust idle screw, when satisfied, bend the rod so the seconaries don't crack open at idle. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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jefmar
Newbie Joined: October-30-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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If not already done, put on a vacuum gauge to rule out a vacuum leak or other problem. And check the timing.
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1989
Ski Nautique 2001 |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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a vaccum gauge is really going to track down a vaccum leak,,,,NOT,
Remove the shift cable from the carb then adjust the idle, set the timing, re-adjust the idle, double check the timing again, encase the RPM was to high when you set the timing, fine tune the idle mixture screws with a vaccum gauge for maximum vaccum at idle, do a final adjustment to the idle and be done with it. It's pretty simple unless you like chasing your ass and doing stupid stuff like worrying that the secondary butter flies are open at idle when you have maxium vaccum and they don't open or move until the vaccum drops or your carb is completely messed up and you should seek professinal help |
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jefmar
Newbie Joined: October-30-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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79 - I did not state that....
In my humble opinion, it is important to verify that there is no vacuum leak. |
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1989
Ski Nautique 2001 |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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A sloppy secondary return lever will cause the secondaries to hang open intermittantly, causeing a poor, lean idle that comes and goes. Its not nonsence, its a basic check before proceeding and chasing your ass with the air screws to compensate for the slightly hung open buterfies. Since the secondaries don't have an idle circuit its a vacuum leak.
Setting the air screws for max vacuum at idle is the best-way to dial in an off-idle dead-spot; its just too lean, low-torque condition. Air screws should be set for strongest idle, in gear, in the water. This simulates the auto-trans, in-gear procedure used on auto-equipped cars to eliminate off-idle stumble. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Yak3
Groupie Joined: March-10-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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I'm not back in town till thursday, but i'll try that stuff then, thanks for the feedback.
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Jim_In_Houston
Platinum Member Joined: September-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1120 |
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It sounds just like a vacuum leak to me. Spray WD-40 around the base of the carb and see if the engine idle speed changes.
Oh... another thought, now that you replaced the points with the electronic conversion re-check your timing. A change in timing can increase your idle speed. Did someone above mention that? |
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Yak3
Groupie Joined: March-10-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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I checked the timing, its 8deg TDC which i think is what it's supposed to be at, I'm back in town tonight, so i'll check it then. When I check the timing, I just line up the mark, check that it's on the compression stroke and check the distributor to make sure it's on one.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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that will get you close but you need to use a timing light, the arc will jump in the cap as soon as the edge of the rotor's tip gets close to the terminal in the cap, not when its lined up or directly in front of it and you should be picking up on hen the coil fires not where it is inside of the cap. This is what you would do to check if the timing chain has jumped not to set your timing, well not very accurately atleast.
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Yak3
Groupie Joined: March-10-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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well, i checked it with a timing light and it was dead on. Replaced the PVC/PCV(whatever), sprayed wd40 all around the carb, and no leaks. One thing I did notice is that the throttle plate is bent to the side. Don't know if the way it's bent would affect the rpm, but it's worth a shot.
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