Prisma Preform?

I have an 86 SN which I am planning on restringing this winter. I've read every post that I can find on the subject, but have only found a couple on composite stringers. I came across the Prisma Preform product and talked with the President at the company for about an hour. I do not have a cost estimate yet, but the product seems to be something I should consider.

Most people use wood for obvious reasons, but has anyone looked at the Prisma products? What are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

All good comments. I have similar concerns about the load carring ability of these, but they are being used in other OEM applications. So maybe I'm not educated enough on the subject.

According to the company, they will design the stringer to my height without any problems. As far as the engine cradle, I would have to insert either wood or another composite material to bolt to. But again, they say they do it with other manuafactures all of the time. I don't have any manufacture names, but I am sure that I can probably get them so that I can confirm how they work.

I know of another project that is in process of using them and they are suppose to be sending me some links to others that I can check out. So far, I have only seen them in one outboard application, but again, I'm told they are in inboards as well.

I know that I am more familiar with wood and I would rather return it back to factory spec's, but I also know that I should make sure that there isn't something better out there.

Ranger wrote: I know that I am more familiar with wood and I would rather return it back to factory spec's, but I also know that I should make sure that there isn't something better out there.

That was my reasoning as well. I went back very close to factory with my boat; and on recommendations from this site, I used CPES(clear penetrating epoxy sealer) on all of the new wood. Several here have used it and I think all agree that it's good stuff.

I think it'll outlast me unless I leave it like I found it.

Ranger wrote: Thanks for the replies. After a little more research, I think I am going to stay with douglas fir. The boat has lasted 24 years so far, and I am sure it will last at least that much more when I am done. I spent about 4 hours with a local boat repair shop today and the owner sat down with me, pulled out several types of materials and went over in detail the complete process. I have already completed a couple of other boat restorations, but the information I gained from someone who has been in the business 40 years, was priceless. Thanks again. Have you studied the weight diffrence between fur and Prisma?

According to him, he would use all doug fir, even on the secondary stringers. In other words, no pine. He scribes in each stringer tight to the hull. After he has each stringer dry fit, he builds jigs to keep them in place. To set each stringer, he starts with 2 strips of 3 oz. mat under each stringer. Where each length of mat meets, tear the edges so that they intertwine for a stronger joint. Set the stringer and clean up any excess. After a good 1 or 2 day cure, he then does a layup a 3 oz mat with 22 oz cloth over the entire stringer. Sometimes, he will split the 3 oz mat into two 1 1/2 half oz layers, but lay's them up at the same time. He will take the mat and cloth 3 to 4 inches on the bottom of the hull on both sides of the stringer. Once he has all of the stringers done, he will then lay mat and roven in the hull between each stringer, essentially tying everything together. The mat and roven goes between each stringer and up the hull sides at least 6 inches.

After the bottom is done, he would use 3/4 inch ply for the entire deck. Seal the bottom of the ply with at least 2 coats of resin. The deck should be a couple of inches short all the way around the perimeter. Be sure to set the deck on 3 oz mat strips where the deck comes in contact with all of the other members. Then take mat and cloth tabs and glass to the sides of the hull. After it cures, then lay mat and roven on the top of the deck.

He also had very strong feelings about foam. He said, don't do it. He feels that if any water gets trapped under the deck, nothing good can come of soaked foam.

He is an old school guy that has been around the block. He doesn't like composite stringers and doesn't like to mix the resins within a boat. He won't use epoxy on a vinylester or polyester built hull. I know this might stir things up a bit, but it's what he said nonetheless. He also doesn't like to use any fillers or putties unless he absolutly has too. He feels that putties under glass weakens the layup.

He cut materials and built small mock ups for me while we were in his shop. He showed me some rebuilds that were in process and was very helpful. He even had one of the guys go through and show me each tool they use for each step of the job. I should tell you that he knows that I am not buying anything. I contacted him through someone I know who hires him as an expert witness for insurance clam losses. Although, some might disagree with his steps, he is very knowledgeable on the subject.

Yes, I would probably agree. I think I'm kind of like that to in some ways. Were creatures of habit.

But, to be fair. If I was involved with as many cases as this person was over the years. I too, might form a strong opinion that certain things will work and certain thinks shouldn't be done.

He only indicated that he has had several failures in his shop due to composite stringers. He showed me one that was in his shop when I was there. The stringers were delaminated from the hull and looked pinched. It didn't look like he hit anything from the outside however.

In addition, I think he has testified on a few cases with high speed hulls that came apart. I can see where his experience could form an opinion that says stay away from composite stringers. That obviously doesn't mean that it can't be done, just his experience.

tuna_tugger wrote: Ranger wrote: He only indicated that he has had several failures in his shop due to composite stringers. He showed me one that was in his shop when I was there. The stringers were delaminated from the hull and looked pinched. It didn't look like he hit anything from the outside however. In addition, I think he has testified on a few cases with high speed hulls that came apart. I can see where his experience could form an opinion that says stay away from composite stringers. That obviously doesn't mean that it can't be done, just his experience. I have been in the service industery for more years then I want to admit to and I have a saying "If it is made by man it will break" nothing is perfict. My main concern with composit stringers is bonding to the existing surface. When you use epoxy on wood it can soak in but when you use it on existing fiberglass you are relying on ahesion. Nothing is simple is it.

The other thing I have not resurched is the weight diffrence between wood and composit material. Have You?

Ranger wrote: No I haven't. I would think that composite strings would be lighter when the layups are finished, but how much? I don't know. Like I said earlier, I am getting ready to restring my 86. I should weigh the fir stringers and see what it is and do a comparison.

It would be an interesting comparison. I am going to contact Steve Smith of Smith and Company and get his imput on how best to laminate to existing fiberglass. We all know wood will rot, look at how many of us are redoing older CC. I still am leaning to composit stringers and bulkheads. I only know of one boat that is still made with wood stringers and transom and that is the 19" Donzi Classic. They tried composit but it changed the sound and handling to much so they staid with the original design they have been using for about 20 years. It's an incredable boat that does about 73mph before it starts to chine walk. I went to the factory and had one built for me when I turned 40 and it was an awsome boat.

I agree with what you both have posted. Very good points. For me, I think I will stay with the wood stringers since it was the way the boat was originally designed. My decision was also based on my familiarity with wood and not just advice from others. I don't have the resources or the time to do it twice.

I think we all form opinions based on our experiences. This guy is sharp, but definitely not a cutting edge type. But to each their own! He believes very strongly on what he does and once he is done, he doesn't get them back. Pretty good business model for the most part. Is he missing the boat? (Excuse the pun) Probably, but he is putting out quality work that most people are quite please with.

Further, I don't think I have every met anyone that was willing to give a half day to someone he just met. I appreciate and respect the person quite a bit, even if he doesn't look towards the next level.

Thanks, I am thinking I might start a little sooner than I originally thought. I was in the process of changing the fuel filter and the bracket fell off in my hand. I tried to reinstall it and all got was rotted wood on the end of a lag bolt.

I was hoping for one more trip, but now I'm a little worried. I don't need any more gel coat cracks to deal with. So, I am contemplating on canceling the ski trip with the Nautique and make it a bass fishing trip. I also have a Ranger that my boy and I fish from.

Or, I might just cancel it all together and get started. I am the type of person who won't hardly stop until it's finished and I'm feeling a little itchy to get it going.

I will try to keep everything documented and post a string, but it's not something I'm typically good with. I'll give it a shot, but I need to come up with a clever name to start the string. Any ideas?

The only reason not to use epoxy resin is money. If your doing the labor, roughy 2/3s the cost, - well shame on you for using polyester.
If you've done your homework you know it's SUPERIOR. Amine cured epoxie are the toughest, a little finicky sometimes (amine blush) but worth the cusin'.
Douglas Fur - lasts a long time and with epoxy resin you & I won't have to re-stringer it. Coosa board IS much better and if your inclined to use it, it's as good as it gets today.
Fillers & Fillets - Do add strength and I'd "bed" EVERTHING attached to the hull / substrate in epoxy & MILFIBER.
2,4,6 inch glass tape to bond the stringers / bulkheads.
Foam - I can swim pretty good, on a average lake I'm not using it that's just me, BUT on a costal boat flotation is a MUST. It may save your life...

Read Tim's another BFN rebuild for more coosa

Here it is Another BFN

I do agree with Waterdog and his opinion (based on experience and research) that that only significant reason not to use expoy is money. I too have used poly, and vinyl, and epoxy on many many projects (including many where I had to grind off the old poly or vinyl to do the repair again) and like Andy the waterdog am well aware of issues (some real some inflated) of putting gel coat over epoxy.. but they pale in comparision to the benefits and ease of use of epoxy. Guys who rebuild these boats for a living will often push poly or vinyl but they don't live with the boat afterward.

Like you have heard from Tim and Andy... if money is no object... coosa is a great product.. the company eh.. but the product is exceptional. Douglas Fir is certainly an amazing material as well, and yes a well designed install with Fir and Vinyl will last most likely indefinitely.. but I would still say for the effort involved Fir and Epoxy is minimum...