Vote

phospher wrote: Okie Boarder wrote: So, you're saying that the President can raise taxes? Can you show me in the Constitution or the Amendments where that power is given to the President? Now, if you're trying to make the point that Reagan, in this case, didn't use his power of veto on a bill Congress put in front of him, that's different. Saying Reagan increased taxes is like saying the Clinton decreased them. Neither of them enacted the change. Both of them went along with Congress for certain reasons, but the compromise went against the ideals they would have wanted to stand for on their own. Thanks for the lesson but I know how it works. Hate to break it to you but the constitution was written during the 18th century. Back when your religion thought that diseases were a punishment from god. Now we have this thing called the Germ Theory of Disease. "All men are created equal" unless of course your not white. Yes, he could have vetoed it couldn't have he? Why didn't he? Because he was smart enough to realize that he needed to raise taxes to reduce the deficit. Whatever about Clinton that is beside my point. He's no hero in my book either. And don't tell me that the President of the United States doesn't have influence over congress. And what about the support of his other tax increases? Key word SUPPORT. Let's not forget about Iran-Contra while were on the topic of Reagan either.

So are you trying to say that the Constitution is no longer valid because it was written so long ago? I'm not seeing your point here in that statement.

Yes I agree the President can veto and I agree that he has influence, but ultimately Congress is responsible for legislation and taxes. Singling out ANY President for legislation or tax policies is misleading IMO. A President can be influenced by Congress just as much as they can be influenced by him.

The interesting thing about the table link I put up is that taxes have "nearly" steadily decreased since WWII on the personal level, both at the bottom and the top brackets. 1983-1987 had the 2nd lowest rate for the bottom bracket or 11%. The lowest is right now (unless the tax cuts are allowed to expire) at 10%.

Interesting. Can you point out a small bulleted list of items that are poorly written or outdated? I'm assuming you would like to see them changed, is that correct?

harddock,

   No, no, no read some of his other stuff.

Phospher, were the results of this election a good thing? And do you really belive Republicans are more bigoted than Democrats?

Hey, I actually like the way Joe drives his boat...

actually is it so much the way Joe drives his boat or more the way Joe's boat drives???

harddock wrote: This discussion has gotten pretty involved and very political but yet Eric hasn't chimmed in. Something is very wrong here

Does not have leg to stand on lately

skutsch wrote: Hey, I actually like the way Joe drives his boat... actually is it so much the way Joe drives his boat or more the way Joe's boat drives???

Steve all you have to do is ask and have a strong stomach and I will drive your boat the same way I drive mine..

Riley wrote: Phospher, were the results of this election a good thing? And do you really belive Republicans are more bigoted than Democrats?

First and foremost I think we need more parties. There are a lot of bigots on the left too but again I don't think to nearly the level of the repubs and the GOP has a much stronger propaganda machine. I would like to see more parties and independent candidates.

05 210 wrote: OverMyHead wrote: Nancy said the other day she would retire if she lost the speaker job.    Adios Nancy. GTFO.    Mike

typical polititian = opens mouth, lies come out

   Mike

   *edited to add: post about Joe being sanest person on board, obviously did not mean on board boat

phospher,

I'm not trying to set anyone up. I enjoy debating and love to bash heads a little on where each person stands.

You brought up a few pretty big issues you have with the structure of our country. I'm definitely the type of guy that likes to hear about problems, but not just the problem. I like to hear the problem and a solution. I agree we could go on and on and it may be more time consuming than either of us wants, but I'll pick one of your issues.


Supreme Court Judges

You're saying it is a bad idea for them to serve for decades. So, what is your solution and how would the Constitution need to be amended to provide the solution?

Also, when you go back to our founding documents, do you feel they are so rigid that they cannot change or evolve or that the mechanism to do so wasn't instilled in them from the beginning?

I would also agree that much of what I believe was instilled in my growing up. That's a pretty natural process. I've also evolved some from that and some of my views are quite different than my parents views, as an example. Do you think it is wrong for parents to instill certain beliefs or values in their kids?

Also, I think you need to spend more time getting to know me because I do change and evolve and I'm not dead set on everything. There are core values that I won't change my mind upon because there would be no reason to...it wouldn't make any sense.

For example, I'm sure you believe murder is wrong. I'm sure you will never feel it is OK. Should I consider you to be shallow minded and stubborn because you won't ever change your mind on that belief?

My core beliefs are things I stand by and will not let them change with the direction of the wind. I see a lot of that in our society. I like the saying "Stand for something or you'll fall for anything."

By the way, I'm kind of surprised you didn't bring up issue with some of the "religious" oriented practices intertwined with government and government agencies.

Okie Boarder wrote: By the way, I'm kind of surprised you didn't bring up issue with some of the "religious" oriented practices intertwined with government and government agencies.

Just another reason why I hate the dems too. Everyone is afraid to tackle those issues cause it's taboo. Defecit? How about we tax the churches? Personally, I've never seen a poor pastor or priest in all the churches I've been in. The catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence.

I get humor out of this but I could have told you this without the survey..

"Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions."

src: http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx


If you wanted to educate yourself there is a great talk by a well known physicist Lawrence Krauss titled "A Universe from nothing". Simply search youtube and put on your thinking cap.

folboteur wrote: Greetings from a non-boater (well, I used to have a Folbot, folding kayak)... a friend said you were having a great political discussion. He was right. It is amazing to see this thread went on so long without anyone invoking Godwin's Law... well, someone called Obama a Muslim, and that's close. Anyway, I hereby designate JoeinNY as the sanest person on the board. His comment at 11:59a.m. yesterday says it all, very clearly and fairly. And to those who say, "Oh yeah, FOX isn't so bad, look at MSNBC" I simply say a) two wrongs don't make a right, and b) pointing at MSNBC does not clear FOX of the specific charges. Now, back to boating. :-)

Folbotuer, Welcome to the forum, Feel free to stick around for awhile. Also how about a real first name, folb.... is just to hard to type.
I have some objections to the proclamation process of Joe as the sanest of the group. Joe, this is no reflection on you, you may very well be, just a process objection. First off to make such a proclamation you must establish credibility. Unless you had a GT40 bolted to the bottom of your kayak in a suitcase that is not something to build your CCfan resume on.Kayak owners are stereotyped to be tree hugging/ mother earth worshiping, global warming promoting nut jobs(No offense), hardly a unbiased source for opinions. I view kayaks more as targets than boats. Some well articulated thoughts and opinions will due to build credibility. It is also not enough to pick the guy whos viewpoint most closley matches yours and say wow is he sane. Finally I am wondering how great an honor it truley is to voted the sanest guy in the asylum?
Anyway, I want a recount.

BuffaloBFN wrote: Hear that guys? 1st chance yall get, die off a little! Mr. Phil, can't help noticing how blank your profile is. I also suspect most who have posted here have a higher annual tax liability than you do.

Interesting. If you had to take a guess, how much would you think my household earns purely by my comments?

phospher wrote: Again, I say we need a few of the older generations to die off. It is in the older generations that you find the majority of the racists, religous, and fundementalist. ?

That's what they say in Maine after the people over ruled the government on "mariage equality".