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phospher wrote: Phil, why would I continue this debate, I alrady have you documented as saying that the beginings of life were created, implying a creator. Created by a chemical reaction you simpleton. As far as my religion, am I suppposed to believe you suddenly care after I called you out? or are you just fishing so you can twist a fact to defamate it. I wll not play Judas to my church so you can crucifie it. Like I said this is just not fun anymore. No you are not suppose to care. What you are suppose to realize is that I had you nailed for a Christian which was obvious based on your previous comments. Now back to your bible studies.

Give it a rest, PLEEEEEZE!!!

OK Kevin. I will try my best to let faith rest. I think I tweaked Phil enough. Phil, you might want to stay far away from lightning for awhile!

Eric, NAFTA became law on Jan. 1 1994, 2 years after Clinton became president. While Clinton clearly helped it along, neither the Democrats or the Republicans can be blamed for it by them selves. Both sides supported it, as well as George Bush and Bill Clinton. During the election of 1992, the only opponent to NAFTA was Ross Perot. I clearly remember him talking about "that giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the country" if it was passed. He was considered kind of a kook by most and I didn't support him, but he got NAFTA right. Our whole government screwed us on that one.

Eric, you are one of the few I know that really believes the dems have good fiscal policy. The way I see it buisness is the cash cow of this country. It is the one that can grow, and provide. Government runs on its milk and can not provide anything that the cow does not produce. The cash cow if properly fed and gently milked will provide nurishment forever. Republicans are generally good at feeding the cash cow, but not to fond of milking it. Dems are great at milking the cow but do not see the need to feed it. So We need both parties, but the main goal is to keep the cow healthy, and not overmilk it. Geoerge was a big tent republican, he feed the cow with one hand while milking the heck out of it with the other, leaving it over milked and a little sick. Obama came along and has stopped feeding the cow and promised more milk than it can possibly produce. If he had his way he would kill it and feast on the meat. The problem is when the feast is over we will be left with no cash cow to feast on or milk.
Obama has not cleaned up anything only greatly enlarged the Mess.

eric,

I agree with some of the statements you have made. The examples you are giving are republicans that have lost their way IMO. The types of things you've seen in this country over the last 15-20 years are far away from conservative values. Heading back towards conservative values will bring about positive change.

Phil,

I would say I would think God would fall into the conservative category, if you want an answer to the question. Conservative values are all about small government and free market. This would fall in line with us not being slaves to the "world" and free will, which is a very common thread throughout the Bible.

Do you think differently?

Good points with the cow analogy. Also, the situation with the unions. I have yet to see a government program (or unions) really a good job of providing what they promise, at the cost promised, without going "bankrupt" or disrupting the market because of their influence.

It seems to me that government has WAY overstepped the bounds and people are finally speaking out. Whether this election and the folks now in office will make changes, remains to be seen. But, it is clear the American people aren't happy with the direction this country has been headed and finally have had enough. One thing I'm interested to see if what happens in 2012. If the conservatives elected don't live up to their promises, will they be voted out? Will we see a wave of more offices taken over by conservatives? Will they get drunk with power again and forget their conservative principles?

65 'cuda wrote: Ignore the troll.

Who's the troll?

Senator Brown (R, MA) was asked the other day about his plans for the next election. His reponse was I'm not worried about my job, the election is two years away, I'm worried about your jobs. Maybe, just maybe the new breed of Congress and Senate will finnaly put the people first and worry about the election when the time comes. This bullsh*t about 2012 and who will win is unnecessary at this time. Let's actually swear these guys in and see what they can do.

to let you know Ski, im am disconnecting myself from both parties and voting either independent, or not voting for a president in 2012, its really time for a change, not an Obama change, but a real change because these corrupt bastards backed us into a corner. to me it seems like the 2 party system had its day and just does not work anymore.

I am for re-form....Constitution re-form, a good read in the day

its not necessarily ammendments or the articles themselves, my thoughts were directed towards the arguments we have amongst eachother, the blame game, alot of argueing and nothing getting done, we need middle right and middle left unlike the far to the right and far to the left.
I have no answer for you.

I believe there would be no clear winner based on ideology. The winner would be the side that chose the best, most capable leaders.

I followed the President's trip abroad with great interest. I think it is an example of how incredibly complex the world has become, how difficult it is to accomplish anything anymore. We'll likely get an agreement with South Korea in place in the next few weeks, but the inability to do so prior to the trip would have been unthinkable a few decades ago. 35,000 troops permanently placed to protect their way of life, but can't get a trade agreement? That shows how empowered the "mid-range" economies are now, how powerful the G20 nations have become in the world stage. It will take really capable leadership to find our place in the new world economy and protect American interests.

So, I evaluate candidates on capability and integrity, as hard as that is to figure out. I love our Governor here in NH, John Lynch is a high quality person, highly intelligent and capable, incredibly hard working. I don't agree with all his views, but I'd vote for the quality guy that I truly believe gets up in the morning trying to do the best for his state every time.

This past election was a signal of nothing politically - the thought that "the people have spoken, and they want Republicans" is just absurd. The people want an end to corrupt, self-serving leaders, pure and simple. If the crap that has been going on continues for a few more years you'll see an independant candidate have a chance of being president.

OverMyHead wrote: This is an experiment I would love to see, for a twenty year trial,Split the country down the missisippi river, one side would be run only by conservatives, the other ruled by liberals. There would be a President in charge of international policy and national defense. And then vice presidents in charge of domestic policy, one for each half. both sides would contribute taxes for defense, and foriegn policy. The rest of the funds could not cross the river border. People and business of course would be free to move to the side of their chosing. What would the results be after 20 years? Could we declare an ideological superior? or would both sides have their individual problems and no clear winner would be declared. Then what would it take to re-unite the two halves?

We do that already, The west coast and New England area are Democrat and most of the rest of the country is Republican. How's it working? California, Connecticut,Massachusetts and New York are broke, but oh the benefits!

we need to send this thread to 1600 pa ave. lol

While we're sending info to Washington, can we get a 2 million dollar earmark attached to the tax cut bill that would fund CCF? We could claim we are doing a health study on the benefits of fresh air and water sports. That would be enough to buy 33 new Nautiques, or 133 15 year old Nautiques, or 500 classic '60's CC's, everyone gets one for the "study".