302 teardown

eric lavine wrote: dont let them tell you, let them show you

Will do Eric. I was told they will take pictures or call and I can come into the shop if I am in town. They did a heck of a job on my buddies 318, giving him updates through the whole process.

Keegan, I made sure to leave mine at home...but please post a pic and let me know how they turn out. I may have to freshen mine up when I put it all back together. What color did you go with for the 'original' blue. Mine had been repainted a darker blue at some point by the PO.

storm34 wrote: What color did you go with for the 'original' blue. Mine had been repainted a darker blue at some point by the PO.

Chris, I cant see the pics here at work but going from memory, I believe your engine is the original color. The early PCM/Waukeshas with the green manifolds had very dark blue blocks. Much darker than the Ford Blue Interceptors.

I would replace the damper while youre in there- its easy and cheap ($70). I wouldnt bother cracking open the transmission unless you were having issues with it- there isnt much you can do, short of a full rebuild.

Fl Inboards wrote: TRBenj wrote:     I would replace the damper while youre in there- its easy and cheap ($70). Where can I get a $70 damper plate? Will buy as many as I can. DIM has them for $175.00 BW/Ford 302/351 Florida Inboards price $168.70, In Stock!

Jody,
Chris's boat has a Velvet so the standard off the shelf Sachs plate can be used and is less that $100. Mer Equipment as well as Eric is a good retail source. With a PCM trans, you're screwed since you are stuck with their plate!! BTW, the Sachs plate is better built too!!

Hey! Thanks for the info. I wonder why both Indmar and PCM as well as DIM sells their drive plates for so much? even to us dealers. Wonder what the service load rating is on these plates are? maybe that is why PCM/Indmar and DIM are getting so much for them. Or could be the gold content!

Great info guys. This is a no brainer for the rebuild process.

One other issue I was having was with starting....

At certain times when attempting to start, the boat would act like the transmission was engaged although the throttle was in the neutral position. It would not start unless I moved the throttle just a touch with the button pushed in. I'm not talking major movements, just a simple touch of the throttle.

At first I thought the problem would have been in the Morse Control, but the button had to be pushed in while I moved the throttle to engage the ignition. It seems as if the boat wasn't sitting in neutral and when I touched the throttle it would dis-engage and allow the boat to start. Once running, everything acted normal and performed as it should.

Any ideas? I'm thinking it has to be a setting on the trans?

TRBenj wrote: a quick jiggle of the throttle (button in so it actually moves the trans cable) will usually clear it up.

Thats exactly what I had to do. I remembered reading a couple posts about it a while back. I think Alan gave a nice description of how to properly troubleshoot problems with the throttle cable.

I'm planning on taking the Morse Control off anyway to clean it up while I wait for the motor. I'll also be replacing both cables as I found a pretty nasty wear on the throttle cable.

EDIT- Any chance this had something to do with the trans feeling like it wasn't fully engaged while at idle?

Look at the picture above, by the oil dipstick. Looks like the dark blue was peeling off and showing a lighter blue underneath. I'll take a look at the trans tomorrow and see if I can see any of the lighter blue there.

I figured someone had painted it at some point when I saw this.....Kinda got excited when I saw it as I like the lighter blue a little more.

Chris, that looks right.

I have a couple spots on my 78's motor like that too. My boat was original and extremely low hours when I bought it so I know mine is original.   From what I can tell, ford painted their blocks, and then PCM painted over that paint. It doesn't make sense any other way. PCM wouldn't have 2 different paint colors for the block, but simply repainted fords blue with their dark blue.

storm34 wrote: EDIT- Any chance this had something to do with the trans feeling like it wasn't fully engaged while at idle?

Yes depending on what direction you were off.. worn and sloppy cables could also have both effects you are noticing. However they could also cause you to wear out the clutch plates by idling around half engaged all the time if you have let it go too long. Replace the cable if that is in your plans then adjust appropriately, only worry about the trans if that doesn't take care of it.   

Well guys, just got word from John at the machine shop. I sent a few of you emails but thought I'd post here as well. John thinks it probably got hot at some point and let water on the pistons as the heads were leaking.

2 broken heads
scored pistons

The Cam is said to look great with little wear which was surprising to me as I thought it would have been a worn cam lobe. I am thinking of going to Gt-40p heads but am wondering if I will see much more performance without putting a new cam and intake as well?

He's got a set of heads he will sell me for $110 and will keep my costs down quite a bit.

Thoughts?

I was reading this from the beginning and I missed a bunch of it. The waukesha blue is definitely darker. More like a navy. I used old ford blue and it is much lighter and bluer. I am glad I went back to green on the manis.

Before


After


And here is the manifold. Not the best lighting but this finish seems very durable compared to the slack matt black that the mechanic painted it.

A few questions I have regarding Parts after re-reading Alan's thread.

1. Melling Oil Pump- Still the way to go? What about high pressure vs. High volume. This seemed to be matter of opinion from one to another? I'm probably not going to reach much further than 4,500-5,000 rpm and this seemed to be the changing point? Probably using Moly Rings like Alan unless informed otherwise.

2. Piston to Bore clearance- If I read correctly, Forged pistons are probably the best choice for the $, but need more clearance in a marine application due to cold block temp and need to be turned 180 degrees.

3. Main Seal #'s for Alan's are 17748 and 17795- Would these be the same for my 302? If I read correctly, the front seal is the same as the 351?

4. Tri Metal Cleavite bearings - Still the way to go?

5. Billy mentioned he is using an Eagle Stroker crank- Is there a large difference with this over what John (machine shop) might recommend?

Chris start reading I had a Scat forged VW crank years ago,it was a work of art.I broke it,no fault of theirs tho.

its usually the dead stop that breaks things, unlike a car the most vunerable time when things break is when they let the trans brake loose and try to transfer all the power to the wheels which sit on solid ground, the advantage a boat has is the transition of a smooth band of power thru the range and on a boat things will break at the higher RPMs, more or less something lets loose.
With a tight properly clearanced engine there is no need for a high volume oil pump, I would think there is no such thing as overkill on any engine that you want to perform flawlessly for years, so you probably want to put the best parts in there. obviously the pocket book dictates what goes into the engine, and if the funds are available you always go with the stronger forged parts. really if you wanted you could put hook type piston rings in there and the ring set would set you back 300 bucks....is it needed? probably not, but a piece of mind comes with it.
The only thing I can really add is dont go with any foriegn made budget parts, go with brand name parts like melling, clevite, even OEM parts, they have a proven track record.

Chris, you may want to do a little bit of reading on 302 strokers before deciding between the 331 and 347. Like Horkn alluded to, the extra stroke of the 347 sends the pistons pretty far down in the cylinders- which may have an impact on longetivity. Billy's 331 is plenty stout, as is Reid's 347... just do your homework!

Glad to see youre going to punch it out though. The extra cubes along with a fresh top end will make that Tique something to be reckoned with!