Wisconsin politics

Well, now walker sounds like he is willing to compromise a little.

We will see......

I think another idiot is the dumb @ss Michael Moore... I see he is in Madison claiming the wealthy have overreached taking the working class' money..

Heres another quirp about him ...


In his new movie, Michael Moore calls capitalism evil and argues that it should be replaced by democracy, basically flipping the current arrangement so that the economy serves our political ends.


He seams to forget that this is GOVERNMENT money and that most of them are broke.. It is NOT a private company.


This coming from someone worth 50 million?
What a LOSER...

I hear that plague might be heading to Ohio.
Its very hard to discuss unions with union memebers, its alot easier though when they lose their jobs.
as i go through life i have figured out that nobody owes you a thing, I really think the unions make people anti-company and i dont think a person could be as good as he can be with a backstop

Yes you can chose to justify what you wish, but the govenor however unpopular is working within the rules, He is not required to negotiate, the state has a constitution and I would bet it says something about spending bills being proposed, brought to the floor and then being voted on. I would also bet thet the congressmen took an oath swearing to abide by the state constitution and its rules of procedure. I would further hazard to guess that it does not say the govenor must negotiate with the minority party or that the system can be hijacked and held for ransom by the minority party. Certainly the whole state is well aware of the issues invovled at this point. The govenor can choose to drop the bill or the republicans can chose to vote against it, but they cannot act on the budget till the dems go home. You keep mentioning polls, are they mentioned as a determining factor in your states leislation process? if polls were a determining factor we would not have obama care, and if negotiating were reguired Nancy P would not have been able to tell us we can see what is in the bill after we pass it. This bill may or may not effect me, most likely not, so I have no stake in the game, as an observer I see one side doing anything to lie, cheat or steal thier to get their way, It sets a bad precedence. Imagine how the military would function if officers used this tactic, or how a corpotation would perform if groups of management could hold up decision making. Only in government do you see this type of childish behavior with no consequence.

horkn wrote: Dave, it's the governor's responsibility to represent the people in his state. I am not a union worker Walker's lack of a college degree are really coming to the forefront in this situation.

Tom, You are correct about the govenors responsibilities but which people is he to represent? he obviously will not be able to please everyone and to me that is not his job. His job it to run the state and represent the tax payers that fund its operations. You may be surprised to learn that I was very recently a union employee. Like most organizations I found the union was out for what was best for the union, and showed very little concern for the individual or the viability of the businesses that employeed its members. I see an inherent conflict of interest when unions represent government employees. The relationship is to "cozy" when those making the rules are represented by an organization that they should be governing. The unions in tern raise millions to donate to campains and lobby for bigger government. I think govenor walker has a good grasp on this and is willing to make the unpopular decisions that are necesary to maintain the health of the state.. I do not see a college degree as a guarantee of good judgment, I have seen idiots with masters degrees and brilliant high school drop outs.

Tom, I keep letting myself get dragged into the merits of each side of this issue, but my main concern is for the process, which is more important than any give issue. The process needs to be honored and protected because it is the foundation on which this country and individual states were built and it is what continues to support them and keep them standing. I feel the democrats are showing contempt for that process, which in the long run will be destructive.

I am biased, but from everything I have read and personally witnessed it is Walker who shows contempt for the democratic process. I believe if you were here in Wisconsin you would be much more aware of this fact, and perhaps your opinion of the situation would be swayed. Coverage by the national media concerning the true strong-arm tactics of Walker and the pernicious nature of this "budget repair" bill has been lack-luster at best.

I have seen both Walker and his supporters in the state legislature outright lie about a host of things including the details of the bill and the types and nature of the demonstrators here. While you may disagree with the Democrats fleeing the state the fact is that had they not a bill that is overwhelmingly not supported by Wisconsinites would have been law weeks ago. If the vote in November were the only thing that matters, then why are we able to contact our representative and those in government in the interim? Also, Walker did NOT campaign on these measures, though he DID say he would be tough on unions. I think it is clear from the backlash that had voters known how tough he was going to be he never would have been elected. Remember, he has only been in office a couple of months now.

From what I read above, the Reps or Dems or Ind should all do what ever
they can think of to stop bills from passing that they do not agree with.

If it is not "on your agenda" do every thing in your power to keep it
from being passed. Legal or not....

I do not think that this is what our writers of the Constitution, both
country and state, had in mind.

I am not saying that I agree with Walker and his agenda.. But I am for
this countries, and its individual states, laws.

You may not agree with Walker but he and many others were "Elected" by
the people of Wi. If it was a mistake, he can be voted out next election and they can have their way with the agenda.

critter wrote: You may not agree with Walker but he and many others were "Elected" by the people of Wi. If it was a mistake, he can be voted out next election and they can have their way with the agenda.

Exactly

To succinctly state my position; I think there is a good chance that if you were here in Wisconsin, and even agreed in principle that collective bargaining is not something that should be preserved, you would see the absurdity in what Walker is doing and you might even be against it. Notice I did not say against the ends, but the means. The means have not been effective or proper. You could argue a similar point about the senators leaving the state. I think they in their minds they are fighting fire with fire and based on what I have seen in the bill I and many others here in Wisconsin believe that is appropriate.


As to the backlash, that is exactly how I would characterize it. I am not sure if you have seen photos or video of how immense the protests were and are, but if you were here I again believe that you would characterize it as such. It is true that unions are involved in the protests. But I would venture a guess that up to 50% of the people who show up to the protests are non-union. This is an issue of fair and functional government as much as it is about union rights. Everybody here in Wisconsin has a stake in the outcome, not just union workers. I am not inherently pro-union. But I am against government run amok, and that is exactly what this is.

You may not realize it but just a small bit of things that are also included in the bill are;

-Handing over an array of powers from the legislature to the executive branch (oversight of finances and Medicade are two examples)
-Removing government regulations that protect bodies of water
-No-bid contracts for the operation of state-owned power plants
-De-funding programs that assist in access to contraception

This bill is not a budget repair bill. It is a Christmas list of the far right wing. Wisconsinites are seeing through it and they are not happy.

I know a ton of guys that would be willing to relocate to Wisconsin to replace the BM's, and would be more than happy to take half of the wages.
treading on thin ice when the job market is so saturated, even in todays standards in a non union workplace, you need a damn good reason to fire an employee, if you even play grab ass, the employer is the protector

Like Charlie the weirdo sheen, part the movie union. I do not know the name of it, but the union is not going to stick up for him. Just miles well go ahead and not have unions. If they get invovled in that in federal court freenzy it will make unions look like crap. And all it is for to high pay salaries and tax payers have to pay for it.

The govenor is doing a good job. As we all know we have to run our on budgets at home. We take a look at where our money goes, and we make decisions to quit spending in some areas every year. So as he, and he picked the right area to cut. Will save the state budget and taxpayers alot of money down the road.

Critter- great point..

Republicans end run for a touch down, no defense on the field ,all out of state.

skicat2001 wrote: The govenor is doing a good job.

Not in the eyes of the majority of the people of the state of Wi.

I shudder to think what type of person would support Walker now. As I have said MANY times before, EVEN IF you agree with the ends how can you justify these means? Just imagine how pissed you would be if Democrats did this? If you would be mad in that case you should at the very least have sympathy for those that oppose this bill. Otherwise you are nothing but a petty hypocrite.

Sorry for the strong words, but you simply cannot have it both ways.