Strut & Shaft Alignment |
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Author | ||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: April-27-2011 at 9:32am |
|
I've installed new strut bushings and have reinstalled the shaft to see where the "sweet spot" is, and it looks to be nowhere in the center of the shaft log. The shaft appears to be centered from port to starboard, but it is resting far too low vertically. I am assuming that the strut should not be proud of the hull, but rather recessed. Is this the main problem?
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
you may have to shim your strut, if you do lift the shaft up to the trans coupling it will load the strut bearing, that is the first place to start is aligning the strut to the hole and then on up.
it looks like you will have to shim the aft bolts, normally when your done aligning you should be able to spin the rotating assembly with one finger |
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rob,
You are so far off, I wonder if you have the correct strut???? |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pete, it looks like there are cracks towards the front of the strut
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Eric,
I see them now - it looks like the hull took a major hit!!! Rob, Take a look at the inside of the hull where the strut bolts on. Post some pictures. |
||
Swatkinz
Platinum Member Joined: December-03-2003 Location: Lexington, SC Status: Offline Points: 1307 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Eric, If the assembly can be rotated with one finger, can you assume that you're properly or that you may probably be aligned? For some reason, alignment is intimidating to me. Sorry for the threadjack |
||
Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rob,
I'm getting concerned about the overall condition of that hull?? What history from PO's do you know? Recessed strut basses came in later years. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rob,
I took another look at the first picture and I need to take a step backwards here. Does the picture show the shaft all the way through the log? I'm thinking now it isn't? If true, then Eric's correct in saying that the aft two stut bolts need a SS washer between it's base and the hull. Give it a try, dry fit and report back. |
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Okay, you all have me gravely concerned with the overall integrity of the boat. Both the strut and the shaft "appear" to be straight with the naked eye. I will take the shaft in to work next week and indicate it. Eric, too, has a good eye Pete. As I craweled under the boat to get these picts, it would appear that the strut mounting area did see some distress. I can tell you that it does not "feel" loose when I apply slight pressure from side to side, and the inside of the boat where the srews come through doesn't appear cracked or damaged in any way. BUT........I need to know what everyone's opinions are on the rest of the hull. What are the "lines" on the hull that run side to side? Are these normal gelcoat cracks under the paint? Not quite sure what I may have gotten myself into on this. The PO owned for approx. 10 yrs and did not mention any damage to the boat - seemed like a trustworthy individual. I have not taken the strut off yet as I was mainly concerned with getting pictures posted asap. Very depressed!
|
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Performed a dry fit with .070" thick washers (stern end of strut) in addition to the .070" thick rectangular shim plate that was already there for a total of .140" thick shim. You can see in the picture that I was able to get the shaft into the log, but it is riding and binding on the bottom; not even close to center. I'm beginning to think Pete is on to something regarding the possibility of having the wrong strut. How would I check this? To even get close to center, I think I'm gonna need at least another .250" shim, and I'm quite sure that's unacceptable. Two shims is probably pushing it. Suggestions?? I'm at a loss.
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
i would say the cracks around the strut are from tightening the strut way to tight on an uneven surface, but again it could of taken a good lick there at one time. the cracks look like they originate from the base and head outwards all the way around.
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rob,
Looking at the picture of the strut bolts in the bilge and not seeing any cracking there, I'd say all the cracking in the gel is just from stress. Since gel is hard and brittle, it doesn't take much to crack it. It's also common on a hull that needs a stringer job. On the strut alignment, it looks like they had a issue with this one before considering the shim you found and it may have even been at the factoy. I've seen it before!! It's like the strut itself was mounted too far forward. You're past the point where shimming is recommended so I would suggest two options. Grinding the gel under the strut base as well as some of the base itself or moving the strut aft. Do you remember how much room was between the strut and the prop hub? |
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pete:
That is encouraging news. I do not remember exactly what the distance was, but I remember someone saying that you want at least 7/8", and I know I had probably closer to 1.5 to 1.75". I'm glad you mentioned grinding some of the base of the strut, because that's exactly what I was thinking. I'll take it into work and mill some off. I assume you think I have the right strut then?? How much is safe to shim, and how much can I grind off the hull? Thanks for your help on this. I defiinitely did not want to do the wrong thing here. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rob,
Yes, I now feel you have the correct strut but, as mentioned feel the location is off. Anything past one shim with 5200 as a bedding compound and I'd be building up a new epoxy base for the strut. We just had a member do it. Besides milling some of the base, I feel you'll end up removing the gel at least towards the front. Get the strut where it needs to be even with some washer shims. Plastic wrap the strut base so the epoxy won't stick to it and grease the bolt holes. Then spread the thickened epoxy on the base and bolt it in place. When cured, you'll have a nice solid surface for the strut base. The alternate is moving the strut location aft. |
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
A few more follow up questions:
-What is the max. you'd go on the resin build up? -Do the washers just stay embedded in the epoxy after it sets up? -What kind of plastic wrap are you referring to? Would wax paper work? -Once cured, I assume a light layer of 5200 is still in order? -Do the screw holes get 5200 in them also in order to seal around them? -How much material would you be comfortable with milling off the base of the strut? Sorry for all of the questions. I really don't want to goof this up. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rob,
I wouldn't worry if you needed a inch of epoxy! Just make sure it's filled with one of the high strength fillers. Yes, you can leave the washers in. Use SS. Kitchen stretch wrap. Yes, wax paper will work too. Grease your bolts and make sure the holes are solvent cleaned before the bedding. Yes, you will bed the strut with 5200 just like you would without the epoxy. Screw holes get the 5200 too. I wouldn't go more than about .100 on the base and the reason I think you'll need to remove some gel. |
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What kind of solvent - acetone?? Now, off to getting working on this!!
|
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
BTW, I plan to use the 635 thin resin with aerosil-cabosil filler.
|
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It seems that the shaft is pretty well centered vertically with .220" worth of rear shim, but it now seems skewed toward the port side horizontally. The shaft turned easily with the propeller lightly on, but I wasn't satisfied, so I removed the strut, and the front would appear slightly bent toward the port side. Is there an easy way to straighten? Who could do it if I can't?
|
||
SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Robb - I borrowed a friends fixture to straighten this strut:
|
||
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rob,
A prop shop will be able to do the strut as well. Have you checked the shaft for straightness? Nows the time! When you use the epoxy to build up a new base, use some hex head bolts temporarily to hold the strut on the hull. This way, even if some epoxy gets around the bolt threads, it will make it easy to "unthread" the bolts. I still feel you should plan on removing some of the gel so that strut sits deeper. The problem with so many shims on one end is you are changing the shaft and engine angle. Moving te strut aft slightly will not. |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
it wouldnt hurt to put a plate on the inside top to spread the bolt load for the strut, extra insurance i guess
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
DO NOT MOVE THE STRUT !!!
Don't grind on it! It's a temporary fix. Right? Shim the strut, then shim the front motor mounts. You have a severe case of rotten stringer hull sag. Then, when you do your stringers, aline the hull with the un-shimmed strut. Cool boat! |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Al, Rob can't even get the shaft throught the hull hole and log without it binding. Shim the front mounts only??? That will drop the ouput shaft at the trans and make it worse!! What about the aft mounts on the trans? |
||
storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pete - I see what Al is saying, shim the front of the motor mounts...not the strut mounts.
Al, I wouldn't call Pete's process a temporary fix. What makes you think so? |
||
DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Whenever an old hull starts to sag, the strut will no longer line-up without shims.
When you shim a strut, you must also shim the forward motor mounts. Unless you have plenty of upward adjustment on the mounts. A one more season temp fix. Do not grind or drill holes, shim away! Don't molest your parts or hull just for one more season. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Chris, I know what Al stated and has stated it again regarding just the front mounts.
What isn't mentioned is the rear mounts on the trans. As I mentioned, with just adjusting the front, the trans output shaft will be lower. This is not the direction needed. The aft mounts need to be raised as well. Do to the forward location of the aft mounts, if only the front mounts are raised, the engine "teeter taughters" and the tail end goes down. |
||
DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The rear mounts should be a common sense "given"
Adjust accordingly. Meaning, you should still have enough adjustment. If not, shim! |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Al, Some of the people that come to the site need more help than just saying "given" and "adjust accordngly". Just trying to clear that up. |
||
Robb
Senior Member Joined: July-06-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
All very good points, and I really appreciate the insight. I'm taking it all in.
I've got a lot of work to do, so I'm taking one thing at a time. I will likely have to circle back on some of this when I'm ready, but at the moment, I am focused on getting the strut and shaft measured and straightened, if both are required. After making several phone calls, I have found a shop that has experience with doing both. It will likely be Monday before I can get the parts dropped off. This weekend will likely be dedicated to fitting, cutting, and sealing my temporary secondaries. My goal is to have this boat ready by Memorial Day! If I'm lucky, I might also have a little time to hunt some morel mushrooms while the epoxy is setting up !! I will definitely have more questions come this Fall as to how to fix the "hull sag" before I put new stringers in. Can the hull be repaired? I see a lot of "lines" going across the width of the boat at regular intervals and continue for the entire length. Are these "flex" cracks in the gel beneath the paint due to waterlogged stringers? Is this costly to fix?? |
||
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |