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Another boat lift question

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    Posted: July-08-2011 at 12:07am
Anyone have designs for a DIY bow / stern eye lift. I'm looking for somthing solid but removable. I've got an offer to keep my boat at the lake in an older gentelmans covered boat house. The back of his cove is limited to 3' depth until late summer when the lake usually drops.   

I'm thinking a simple DIY A-frame and I beam (x2)

Anythoughts on the floating / drive on style / Jet dock ect.
Michael ....    

I'm the black sheep ~ 1984 Dixie 299 Super Skier (350 Chev PCM / counter rotation / Velvet drive) Open Bow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harddock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 12:52am
Check Overtons. Their Doozie lifts kind of have a diagram that may give you some ideas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 1:03am
If you can hang it you'll be able to use it until the lake is down to where you can't get out of the slip. Floating lifts need the most water, a hanging cradle would need at least a foot of water to float a boat off of if everything was flat.   My cradle needs almost 4 feet to get the boat off, but my lake stays the same height year round.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 1:17am
Thanks harddock ~ my friend at the lake has the Doozie or a very similar model lift in his double boat house.   

His neighbor next door has the vacant boat house.

TXFoilhead ~ The low water senario does make a bow stern eye lift sound best.

Michael ....    

I'm the black sheep ~ 1984 Dixie 299 Super Skier (350 Chev PCM / counter rotation / Velvet drive) Open Bow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 10:01am
Michael,
Will he allow you to attach anything to his boathouse? Maybe you can make a deal with him and tell him you'll leave the lift when the time comes for you to move on. Yes, hanging the boat requires the least amount of water depth. The boathouse structure needs to be checked out. Do you have any pictures?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 9:16pm
I have had two Ace boat hoists. One cradle and one 2 point lift. The two point lift is basically a motor attached to a pipe with two cables. Pretty simple, but, as Pete said, you need to make sure the rafters will hold it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 9:23pm
ace boat lift motor

I didnt see the old style two point lift, they used to carry. But I did see most of the parts are still being used. You may want to call them and see if that kit is still available. All I had to supply was the pipe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 10:08pm
For the rafters to hold it, all you need is to double up two 2x6's for a span of 10' or less. That should cover your typical boat slip. The 2x6's should rest directly over the pilings. We've been building boat houses for 40 years. That's how most of them are done.

A little trick: When you make the holes in the pipe for the cable attachment, drill at an angle so they are offset. This will make the cable wrap down the pipe and not wad up.

Also, you can use two conveyer belts as opposed to a cradle with pulleys set to the outside of the rafters. The belts just cradle around the boat, any boat, no customization necessary and they need practically zero water depth so you don't lose any headroom in your boat draft. It's much easier on the boat quite honestly than constantly using the lifting eyes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 10:30pm
Jeff,

Good info, I've been on or around the lake for about 30 years now and I've seen a lot. I'm going to have to suggest against the straps though for 2 reasons. First one is the underwater gear on an inboard boat. At best it would be a pain to get the tracking fins over the rear sling, at worst you pick the boat up by the drive shaft. The second reason is the, inward squeeze the slings put on the boat. I have a friend with a 22 ft Glastron that is a about 2 inches narrower than it was when it was new from sitting in a sling. When you try to shut the windshield you see how off it is.   I know it's not the best built boat around, but that wouldn't have happened if it was sitting on bunks and a cradle.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 10:55pm
You make some good points about the hazards with an inboard boat but it is definitely overcomable. Since he is building the lift, he can set the straps where that shouldn't happen with the shaft. As for the tracking fins you just have to lower the belts more. The back belt is sometimes slightly lower than the front but it depends on where your drain plugs are located. The bilge needs to be drainable.

As for your friend's Glastron. We've been hanging boats with slings for years and never had that problem. The cables should be out wider than the gunnels. We usually set ours all the way to the edges of the slip. This keeps the boat from pinching in the sling. Check the position of his pulleys. If the boat is squeezed and the pulleys are well past the gunnels of the boat, then I would suggest he has other structural problems.

However, if you can get a cradle, that's definitely the best idea just not always the cheapest or most practical. 3ft of water isn't much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2011 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by TX Wind TX Wind wrote:

For the rafters to hold it, all you need is to double up two 2x6's for a span of 10' or less. That should cover your typical boat slip. The 2x6's should rest directly over the pilings. We've been building boat houses for 40 years. That's how most of them are done.

Jeff,
Be careful here, Every boathouse may not be the same. Careful engineering of the load is needed. A 2x6 even sistered with a 10' span won't carry that much. I have all the load spec's at work. BTW, it also depends on the wood species you use!!!!!!! So, your guys just throw in a couple of 2x6's and call it good?? how's your liability insurance? I'm sure the insurance company would LOVE to know about this!!!
Originally posted by TX Wind TX Wind wrote:

Also, you can use two conveyer belts as opposed to a cradle with pulleys set to the outside of the rafters. The belts just cradle around the boat, any boat, no customization necessary and they need practically zero water depth so you don't lose any headroom in your boat draft. It's much easier on the boat quite honestly than constantly using the lifting eyes.

Why are you recommending slings??? Use the lifting eye/ rings!!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 1:05am
I've been slinging mine for years and I use a garage door opener to lift it I'll get pictures in the morning
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I've been slinging mine for years I'll get pictures in the morning


Gary don't worry about the pictures we get the idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I've been slinging mine for years and I use a garage door opener to lift it I'll get pictures in the morning

A garage door opener?? !!! I motorized my lift with a DC gearmotor. I picked it due to worries about the voltage drop all the way from the house to the lake. With the DC, if it sees less voltage, the only thing that happens is it runs slightly slower!

I want to see your set up so don't forget the pictures! BTW, Mine is set up so it's able to be disconnected from the drive with a couple of "T" handle pins. Just in case of a power outage, I still want to be able to go boating!!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 7:13pm
Ok here you go,just make sure your sitting down I don't want you to get hurt. Menards used to sell the actual lift parts years ago but when they stopped carring them my Dad went and found out who the actual distributor was. They sold you the hard parts,you supplied the wood,and Dad added the roof.When he built his permanent dock and lift,I moved this one over to my pier on the ice,and got rid of my Hewitt. He had got tired of cranking his Shamrock up and I happened to have the old garage opener from my Grandfather.Being from the '50s it had a crummy add on remote and no safeties on it so I had taken it out. Pictures are a little hard to see, but you'll get the idea. Red Green would be proud





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 7:16pm
This method of slinging the boat also checks your stringers,when it folds in the middle,they need to be replaced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

Gary don't worry about the pictures we get the idea.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 8:02pm
Gary,
Cool!! Great back yard engineering and it fit's right in with the other lifts on the river!! Why did he choose the slings? No lifting rings on the Shamrock or not enough support across the top?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2011 at 9:19pm
It came with slings Pete and his other Shamrock only spent 1 summer on it before he built the new dock. I have shallow water problems in front of the house so I just kept them.Sometimes I had trouble getting off the Hewett,which you can see between the 2nd and 3rd post on the left,they are on the deep side of the river.It's still in use and over 20 years old.When he went with his new dock he built a cradle,but he's out farther so it's a little deeper

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2011 at 12:31am
Thanks guys-great tech advice.   I appreciate the discussion.   My friend and his neighbor are both builders.   The neighbor with the boat house is 20+yrs past retirement.   The boat house is not strong enough for a lift, but I might could make necessary improvements.     I'm out of town right now - pics the following weekend.   I'm more comfortable working with steel / but they both have poles timbers and heavy equipment available.   I like the worm gear drive on the doozie style lift.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by TX Wind TX Wind wrote:

For the rafters to hold it, all you need is to double up two 2x6's for a span of 10' or less. That should cover your typical boat slip. The 2x6's should rest directly over the pilings. We've been building boat houses for 40 years. That's how most of them are done.

Jeff,
Be careful here, Every boathouse may not be the same. Careful engineering of the load is needed. A 2x6 even sistered with a 10' span won't carry that much. I have all the load spec's at work. BTW, it also depends on the wood species you use!!!!!!! So, your guys just throw in a couple of 2x6's and call it good?? how's your liability insurance? I'm sure the insurance company would LOVE to know about this!!!
Originally posted by TX Wind TX Wind wrote:

Also, you can use two conveyer belts as opposed to a cradle with pulleys set to the outside of the rafters. The belts just cradle around the boat, any boat, no customization necessary and they need practically zero water depth so you don't lose any headroom in your boat draft. It's much easier on the boat quite honestly than constantly using the lifting eyes.

Why are you recommending slings??? Use the lifting eye/ rings!!   


I've seen stress cracks start to form from using the lifting eyes. He has shallow water so slings will save that from happening and still get him low. Also, lifting from the eyes will load the 2x6's at the center. Using slings spreads the point loading away from the center nearer to the supporting uprights. We use East Texas Pine down here. Not the hardest wood in the world. Double 2x6's not just one. It does work just fine, especially for a boat as light as a CC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 1:39pm
Also Pete, the roof structure itself is tied to these cross members so the load transfers better across the span than just the two 2x6's. In 40 years, we haven't lost one yet. The liability insurance is doing fine LOL.

Why don't you come on down and have a beer with us? You'd be amazed at what we can do with duct tape.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 1:53pm
HOWEVER! Pete is absolutely correct if you try to lift from the lifting eyes with the double 2x6's. It will point load the center. There is a reason you see so many lifts using slings.

I don't want my liability insurance to go up Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 2:13pm
Pete's got me thinking a little. I'm actually more concerned with what kind of uprights it's sitting on and their condition. Send some pics.

Just so you guys are comfortable, my dad is one of only 5 deep piling contractors in North Texas. We built a platform to support a triple deck gas well drill that weighed a million pounds with a million pounds of pull back. Oil and gas companies are in a hurry so we built it on the fly from the seat of the machinery we used to do it. We developed soil cohesion data from the drive characteristics on site. They didn't want to wait for us to put the cross members in and we predicted a 1 to 2" sink in one corner depending on their pull back. They got 1 as predicted and we didn't even break out our slide rule. We mobilized, designed, and built a $600,000 support platform in less than 10 days 7 feet from a live gas well with sparks flying everywhere. If you're not familiar with gas wells and steel driving, they don't mix. Ya gotta know your doodoo man.

Send me pics. If the old man says 2x6's will hold, they will hold. And I checked with him. He says if you lift from the eyes it will take more support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 2:29pm
Also, If you have to drive some uprights, I need to know how much silt you have and pics of the soil you are driving into will help. I've got plenty of po boy methods that will drive the engineers crazy.

What type of machinery is available to you? Nothing drives like a drop hammer and you can build one cheap enough but there are sometimes easier, cheaper ways. 3 feet of water is real shallow but if you have 5 feet of silt, your uprights will need to hit into the solid ground.
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