Showing my ignorance 4 times in one thread! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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No. This is how our BFN looked with 600 lbs of wet foam in the nose... lots of daylight under the platform!
If there are no soft spots in the floor (check very carefully everywhere between the motorbox and battery box) and the lags on the cradle are nice and tight, then dont worry about it. There is undoubtedly *some* degree of water intrusion in a boat that age with original stringers and floor (so some wet foam and rot), but it can be run like that for years and years. The vast majority of old boat owners are blissfully ignorant of the problems lurking below their floors and Ive yet to hear of a boat crumbling to pieces while underway. Try to put it out of your mind and go boating! BTW, the correct radial tire size on a '83+ CC #3 trailer is 225/75/15. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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I know some of you have been critical of all of the questions on this thread. I am new here too and I am anticipating the purchase of a 60s Mustang, if I am able to find a nice enough one.
It is nice for a newbie to have this resource available. This thread will be very helpful as a reference for new owners in the future, much as the old Mustang stringers threads are to me. Everything you could ask all in one place. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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One more thing... if you "must make sure that youre getting a solid boat" then you may want to consider ponying up a bit more $$ and doing what gun-driver suggested a few weeks ago.
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Ok...just so I am understanding what you are saying... "No."....as in that is not an accurate test to judge foam saturation. OR "No."....the platform is sitting too low. I assume the first one, but just want to make sure. I think I'm going to have the boat/trailer weighed and go from there. The floor is very solid around the drivers seat and by the motor box (although...directly in-front of the motorbox...is that where two separate pieces of floor come together?), and the stringers, from what I can tell, seem solid. The boat appears to be sitting normally, etc. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Correct. I am a bit skeptical that what you learn about the boat's weight will be useful. I dont think CC was all that accurate in their weight estimates of the trailers, especially- and Ive noted inconsistencies in the boat weights as well! |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Matt - I don't think you are going to find a nicer boat for the price. My platform almost touches the water, so I don't think you have a major issue. Go skiing!
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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All of the "checks" that a person should do when looking at one of these boats (tighten the bolts, check the floor) all come back to indicate that the stringers and floor are solid.
In doing some looking, I did find two areas where there is fiberglass cracking and there is obvious saturation: ...the area behind the exhaust tubing...the vertical area facing the rear of the boat. Tomorrow I'm going to try and have the boat + trailer weighed and then launch the boat and have just the trailer weighed. If it's wildly overweight, I'll probably pass...but we'll see. CC says the dry weight should be 2400 pounds. I have full fluids, battery, and a damn-near full tank of gas (6.175lb/gallon * 31 gallons = 191.425 pounds.) |
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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So, today I had the boat + trailer and just the trailer weighed.
Boat + Trailer = 3,820 pounds Trailer Only = 940 pounds Boat only weight = 2,880 pounds. Here are the figures I used for fluids: 167.5 pounds for fuel 50 pounds for the battery 9 pounds for oil (5 quarts) 16.6 pounds for cooling water (2 gallons) Total 243.1 pounds. 2880 - 243.1 = 2636.9 pounds. Now......everyone join in and tell me how much of a worry wart I am... I'm pretty happy with the results. Here are some pictures as she sits: |
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MIskier
Senior Member Joined: July-29-2011 Location: Gulfcoast Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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200 pounds of variation in weight is definetly in tolerance for a boat of that age that was laid up by hand, and who knows if they were using resin counters back then.
You will never find a guy running a resin gun that puts down too little resin, they want to see that glass turn pink as quick as possible and that almost always means that you are going to end up with a lot of excess resin. |
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ny_nautique
Platinum Member Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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I thought mine was 2400lbs too but mine would seem to be slightly lighter than yours. I have an 84 with standard seating and no stereo/speakers. I just got my trailer weighed and will have the boat and trailer weighed together in the next few days. I wonder which configuration they used for the weight.
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Swatkinz
Platinum Member Joined: December-03-2003 Location: Lexington, SC Status: Offline Points: 1307 |
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I wonder if CCs original weight was with no back seat, standard back seat or the deluxe interior? I'd say the deluxe interior rear seat might way 75-100lbs. more than the standard seat. That'd put you within 150lbs. or so of your target wouldnt' it? What does everyone else think?
I think I'd pull the trigger and enjoy it. It's a nice looking boat and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better non-stringered boat than this one. I'm sure there are many years left of life in this one. |
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Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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The three prior posts to mine are very helpful and encourage some discussion.
I'm confidant that the boat is solid. I'm much more comfortable about buying it having had it weighed. But, like what was raised above, does that 2400 pound weight from CC include the basic interior, deluxe interior, etc? And how was the boat made? Was the resin equally laid or was it dependent on the "human factor" to judge? All in all, I hope this thread is a great benefit to the site. I think I have raised a bunch of great questions that may get lost in the search function. |
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MIskier
Senior Member Joined: July-29-2011 Location: Gulfcoast Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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Even on modern boats there is still weight variation that is alot greater then the general public would expect. The human factor is part of it, and so is the weight of the raw glass but to a much smaller extent.
2400lbs would be a base boat, so if there was a basic interior availible in that year that should have been how it was weighed dry with no fluids or options. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Matt, I really don't feel you need to worry about much variation in weight due to different quantities of resin from the "human factor". They were hand laid one layer at a time. The amount of resin used for each is tightly controlled. You never want too much since it's only the "glue" that holds the glass together and that's where the strength comes from. Resin by itself is very weak and the reason for the need of controlling the amount. Even if they used too much in areas, it won't add up to more than a couple hundred pounds. Sounds like you can make the deal and go boating!! |
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MIskier
Senior Member Joined: July-29-2011 Location: Gulfcoast Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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You would be suprised what "tightly" controlled is, there is a minimum amount that is speced but no penalty to the tech for using too much resin and they never use too little. That little bit adds up to some pretty decent weight fluctuations.
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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why wouldnt you buy the boat it seems like a no brainer i cant imagine finding a better one for anything near the price.
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Well...looks can be deceiving. This is a big purchase and I wanted to make sure I do my due diligence when buying. Yes the boat looks great, no denying that. But it's what's lurking under the floor that had me concerned. I wanted to make sure that, structurally, the boat was sound. Everything else I can handle, but I didn't want to have the boat for a short time and realize that the stringers were shot. Get this though (you're going to think I'm even more crazy): I sold my 1989 Bayliner for $4,800. Subtract that from the $8,500 for the CC, and I'm really only paying $3,700 out of pocket for the Nautique.. |
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Ok...in case anyone is wondering about standard seating weight/deluxe seating weight...and what number CC used...here is an e-mail I received from them on that very issue:
For what it's worth...there it is. |
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Chopper
Gold Member Joined: June-15-2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 821 |
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Are you sure about this.? It "should" lock out from forward / neutral, reverse / neutral. That is the purpose of the lift ring release under the throttle knob. so you don't accidently go from forward to reverse or accidently engage either from neutral. I think the "click" is the worn lock mechanisim dropping into & out of the "lock" position. I can't speak for an 85, but my 89, 91, 98, & 03 all had the lockout. The 98 & 03 were the only ones that worked but they have a different control. Not a deal breaker in my mind, but you need to be aware of it. |
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Swatkinz
Platinum Member Joined: December-03-2003 Location: Lexington, SC Status: Offline Points: 1307 |
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Unless a PO put a lock out ring type throttle on this boat then it would not have that safety mechanism. |
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Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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'89 was the 1st year for the lock out shifer, per the sales brochure - I looked!
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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Andrew....yes I'm sure that is why I made reference to get in the habit of pulling the safety knob out anytime you get up out of the drivers seat and the boat is running OR if you have skiers/swimmers boarding the platform to prevent an accident.
Chris is right in that CC went to the Morse 2 controller in 89 so that the throttle is locked in the neutral position and you have to disengage the safety by pulling up on the collar before advancing throttle. |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I really try to push the idea of shutting down the motor in addition, any time anyone is getting off (and especially on the boat) via the swim platform. I guess when you're getting off the boat, you can jump clear, but when you're getting on, you're really close to the prop, and an accidental reverse could cause a pretty grizzly accident.
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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I didn't used to shut down all the time, but the past few years I've decided to always shut down. It's so easy to do and I simply don't want to leave anything to chance that might result in hurting someone. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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A starter is cheaper and easier to replace than a limb...although there are home kits on E-Bay that come with decent instructions............. |
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Liledgy
Groupie Joined: July-13-2011 Location: Midwest Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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VIC, I feel the same as you do. Usually your first feeling is the correct one. I am going to holdout for a composite stringer boat. That 86 is an exact replica of my buddies 84 that they bought brand new (long gone). I have a question for the veterans here. Is their a reason for not putting composite stringers in when replacing the wood on the "80's" 2001's? It would seem like a no brainer. I know it may cost a little more but it sure would be a great selling point. And for the amount of work, it would seem well worth it. I don't mean to thread jack. |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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No Name.... We have had several members here go back with an all composite stringer/web system and posted the entire rebuild here on CCFan. One of our members from the UK has taken it one step further and is going back with an all composite engine cradle. If done properly, going back with a wood system you shouldn't experience any rot in the future. Extra steps should be taken when doing so and the members here that have documented the job have done just that. |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I agree. |
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