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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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the cheaper it is the more work you have to do.
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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KRoundy
Platinum Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Lake Stevens Status: Offline Points: 1702 |
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Can I use an orbital polisher/buffer for this type of work? I have a Craftsman 10" that use for polish/wax/buff on my cars. Or so I need to get a different tool for this gel coat work? What is the difference?
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Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique
Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
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MartyMabe
Grand Poobah Joined: February-21-2006 Location: High Point,NC Status: Offline Points: 3980 |
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That's OK! You'll just have bigger forearms for your wife to hold onto after you get done with all that buffin'!
The gel-coat is very forgiving--not like car paint! Don't forget the PICS! Before, During, and AFTER! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Kevin,
The Crapsman orbital will probably not do the job. If you are planning on doing allot of compounding out wet sanding scratches, you'll need a true buffer. That orbital is best for waxing if that!!! Sorry but I DO NOT care for the brand!!!!! |
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KRoundy
Platinum Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Lake Stevens Status: Offline Points: 1702 |
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OK. The orbital buffer was a gift and it does a fine job of waxing my cars, but it is a very simple and basic machine. I'll so some tool shopping. The DeWalt 849 still the tool of choice for us home-use guys? Is there anywhere that sells a "package" deal that would have the tool and all these various pads that I'm going to need? I see there are some packages on eBay, but who knows what quality or brand the pads are. Might just pick up a used one from eBay and source the pads from elsewhere.
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Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique
Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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I see that Hutchins makes a lot of DAs. Can anyone tell me which model is the best all around for wet sending boat gel coat finishes? I have done it by hand with a block in the past.
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AussieNorts
Groupie Joined: March-10-2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Would you guys recommend this process for a boat that is not heavily oxidised, 1997 model? It has just lost the shine in the high traffic areas, over the back from swim platform into the boat and around the nose hand rails etc..
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Correct craft.....is there any other boat?
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Nevergrew
Groupie Joined: March-22-2010 Location: Australia, NSW Status: Offline Points: 74 |
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Mate, by the sounds of it, it just needs a good buff with a variable speed sander/polisher machine. You can get some cutters from your local marine shop. I've recently finished a full gel sand below my gunnel rubber from 320 to 1500 grit paper and finished it off with two types off buffing, an extra cut, then a superfine cut. The brand I used was Ronstan. Available at my local Biasboating store. Don't be afraid to attack the gelcoat. It's as tough as anything. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I own 2 Hutchins, anyone that does this stuff professionally owns one, the gel will kick your ass before you kick its....I'll grab the model numbers
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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I have several questions for Tim or anyone else about the buffing procedure. I have been using 3M Marine Rubbing Compound (09004), followed by 3M Marine Color/Gloss Restorer (09089). The rubbing compound works well, but is pretty aggressive and leaves the expected buffing scratches in the gel. The color restorer seems to have very little abrasive in it, and is unable to remove the extremely small scratches from the surface after the rubbing compound. I end up having a very nice glossy surface, but if you examine it very closely you will see the very fine scratches from the compound. It is similar to what you commonly see on a very glossy black car. Since it is a creme colored boat you have to look hard to see them, but they're there. I am thinking of trying the procedure described above to get a totally glass like finish, but I would like to know which backing pads I need for the described pads. There are several listed on smartshopper.com, but I don't want to buy the wrong ones being that they are nearly $50 each. BTW, I really don't want to wet sand the gel. It is in very good condition and I don't want to remove the slight "print through" from the woven roving. It shows that the boat was laid up that way and reminds me of a fine carbon fiber bicycle frame. I believe that wet sanding it would remove this feature as it is very subtle. It's presence separates this from a chop gun lay up. It's not that I don't like and sometimes prefer chop gun layups, but this boat is what it is and I want to keep it that way. Any help is appreciated, my finish skills are not up to the experience some of you have. Go Chicago Beers, tonight! |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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trizac on your final wetsand, its the ***************
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Eric, I haven't been wet standing as mentioned above. I have been using only the puffing & polishing compounds. I am afraid that wet standing or any type of blocking will remove the print through. Do you know if it will? |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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John, Im not familiar with the particular 3M products youre using, but I understand your issue. What you need to make sure happens is that each successive round of finishing (whether it be sanding or buffing) removes the scratches left in the surface by the previous round. For the same reason you cant skip from using 220 grit right to 1000 (without spending a LOT of time at 1000), you need to make gradual steps from most aggressive to least aggressive. While sanding, you can use a tracer to make sure that all previous scratches are gone prior to moving on to the next grit... but with buffing, you need to carefully select the products youre using, as well as the pads that youre applying them with to ensure that happens.
It sounds like you would benefit from using an intermediate step between the 2 youre currently using. The steps I laid out are a pretty well proven solution- Ive used it on a number of boats with great success, as have a few other friends here (including both Brad and Bruce, who habitually take home best in class at the NE reunions). |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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That is the problem I am having, Eric. I think I will go to your system. Is this the back up pad I should be using with these products?
3M™ Hookit SBS Backup Pad Designed to be used with 3M Compounding Pads PN's 05711, 05719 and all Hookit type foam pads) Designed to be used with 3M Polishing Pads PN's 05713 and all Hookit foam pads. Part # Description UPS Each Truck Each 05717 Backup Pad; 1 per case $ 49.00 $ 47.00 |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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That 3M backing plate may work, but the Milwaukee one I have is much cheaper:
Coastal Tool I might also try the 7.5" wool/poly blend "finishing pad" shown on that same page, as the wool/acrylic Lake Country pad from Smart Shoppers seems to be discontinued. The part numbers on the compounding pads from Smart Shoppers are: 41-325 (Super Duty Compound) 41-725 (intermediate compound) |
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Nautique2001
Grand Poobah Joined: June-14-2004 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 2832 |
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I'm reviving this post to get all prepared to wetsand a gasoline stain on my transom. Looks very soaked into the gel coat and will definitely need some wetsanding.
Silly question, but with wetsanding, do you literally keep the sanding pad wet the whole entire time while using the buffer? Do you mix in soap or other agents? Sound pretty simple with starting with the lower grit number working up to the highest number. I was scoping out cheap sanding/buffing tools are Harbor Freight Tools for $50. All the 3m products look awesome. What grit paper is ok to buff over the graphics without eating them up? Ken |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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ken,
When wet sanding, the paper must be wet all the time. The water flushes the fines (sanding dust) out of the paper. No soap or wetting agent is needed even though some do use it. The HF may work for awhile but to me is not the best investment. Buy quality and it will last and pay for itself. Here's also am interesting statement from Eric:
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Ken, you can't sand over graphics or pinstripe. Sanding should be done by HAND. Yes, keep the paper wet. A little bit of dish soap in your water bucket is ok.
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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I have found a spray bottle to be very helpful in wetsanding... a bucket is good too, but i find that I spray (clean) more often when I have a spray bottle.
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Nautique2001
Grand Poobah Joined: June-14-2004 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 2832 |
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Thanks for all the advice. Tim, you don't recommend using a buffer on a fuel stain the size of a bowling ball on the transom? Should I start with 400 or 600 on a fuel stain. Do you use some sort of block if doing it by hand? Do I go in circular motions? I just can't wrap by brain around putting a piece of sandpaper to gel coat!! Maybe I'll take a trip to Goshen
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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You may want to make the trip, I think you're still struggling to grasp the concepts here, ha. Only block if using an aggressive grit, say 400 and below. You shouldn't need to be that aggressive. Do all sanding by hand. You still need the buffer and pads for all the compounding and polish. That part comes after the sanding.
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Nautique2001
Grand Poobah Joined: June-14-2004 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 2832 |
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I'm about as schooled in this as I am with brain surgery. I would be pretty pumped to swing by Lake Benjamin for some help with this. I pay with cases of beer. Let me know when you have spare time between your projects and I'll swing by!
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Do you have all the compounds and polishes? My supply is low. I've got everything else. Maybe get together once the weather turns?
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Nautique2001
Grand Poobah Joined: June-14-2004 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 2832 |
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Tim, I'll purchase all the necessary supplies. I believe one of your posts tells exactly what to have. I just don't have an orbital tool. Maybe sometime in May will work as the weather starts to improve. In the meantime I'll get the GT40 all tuned up. I greatly appreciate you helping me get started with this project! My next project is having the windshield removed and the frame repainted. Seeking out local body shops who can strip and paint aluminum. I assume they would powder coat it?
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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May sounds good. Powder is more specialized and may require a specialized coating place. I use a guy in east Hartford.
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dip
Senior Member Joined: August-29-2009 Location: Eastern PA Status: Offline Points: 392 |
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The reason to use soap is it lubricates and breaks the surface tension of the water allowing a more consistent scratch pattern. The more consistent your scratch pattern the easier it is to sand them out the next round. I like Murphy's Oil soap, probably because it smells good. You only need a little bit (a tablespoon maybe) in a spray bottle.
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Nautique2001
Grand Poobah Joined: June-14-2004 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 2832 |
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Tim, maybe we can touch base mid April? I'm working on the windshield project soon. Hopefully it's an easy thing to disassemble!
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Mcdees84
Newbie Joined: July-06-2019 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Bumping an old thread. Read through this and know what I want to do to remove some minor oxidation but have a question regarding the decals. I have a DA Dewalt polisher and I’m worried what it might do to the decals while using 3M compound. Will it white them out, rip them off, do nothing to them? Should I just hand apply the compound around the decals?
Thanks! Matt Edit-no one answered so I made a new post and someone responded. Avoiding the decals with the polisher and will hand polish those areas. Figured I’d share in case someone like me comes along later and needs this answer. |
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