Election 2012 Is Comming

JoeinNY wrote: Lower our rates to what 7% to beat the swiss, 2% to beat bermuda.. aint gonna bring any money back under the current laws (yes regulation) unless you make the rate 0%. So that isnt exactly a path that gets these companies paying thier fair share of what it takes to keep the miliary, roads, fire, police, etc up and running. Disallow the various trickery that keeps the companies from paying the proper tax rate on profits.. then we can talk about what that rate needs to be to keep companies in america. Right now we let them take advantage of being in america without a contribution while the small and medium size business dont have that luxury..

Joe, I agree with you that our corporate tax system is a mess. It was sad to see Barack complaining about that while the president of GE (whos company reportedly pays nothing) a presidential advisor, sat right behind him. I wonder why GE pays nothing? I believe we can talk about correcting this without the politics of envy being inserted into the argument. All I hear is we need more taxes on the rich, which is false. We need a plan that has every business paying a resonable amount of taxes, which would actually be a lower rate than we have, just without loopholes. We do need to keep in mind that businesses are going off shore, and they do it for cost reasons. Our government cannot afford to loose these cash cows, we need to be competitive, and keep business here and paying taxes. this would of course invlove ethical legislators not handing out favors.

phospher wrote: OverMyHead wrote: = Phil Did you even read the quotes, several Specifically mentioning the internet and Al Gore, You should try to keep one foot in the neighborhood of reality! When I initially said I was not defending Gore, I was talking on the points of climate science. I thought that would have been obvious given my references to scientists but once again you do what your so good at doing, twisting facts to your advantage and misinforming people. With respects to the internet, I was just correcting your spew of misinformation. Do you understand yet? P.S. When are you running for office?

I understand you are trying to twist the truth, Al said "when I took the initiave in creating the internet.

Here is a synonym list for creating

Main Entry: create
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: develop in mind or physically
Synonyms: actualize, author, beget, .....invent, ....... set up, shape, sire, spawn, start
Same differnce. He implied with his language that it happend by his works, not his support of a bill. again he mmissspoke, but it is funny, or at least it used to be before all this.

OverMyHead wrote: eric lavine wrote: Greg, didnt you listen.....I mean really listen that goes for u to Dave Eric, First of all it was sickening to see him call a joint session for a campain speech. In the past they have been used for the state of the union and things like war declarations, not to announce a lame rehash of an unsuccesful stimulus. I listened to his speech from start to finish. All he did was propose more of the same spending that has done nothing or hurt the economy so far. He said pass this about fifty time, like he was trying to hypnotise all of us which kind of scared me. He again wants to hit up the job creators for money and give it to the teachers and construction unions. He spoke again of fairness, which always means someone getting something they did not earn. He wants to extend unemployment by another year(three years...really?) When does it just become welfare? This will again raise unemplyment insurance rates on working employees, slowing job growth. He kept saying this is paid for but as I see it we have a deficit of 1.4 trillion this year and he wants to spend another .45 trillion, so unless we cut 1.85 trillion from this years budget it is not paid for. We can not afford this. He also said he is planning to review all regulation, more uncertainty for business, I will guaranty there will be changes and additions well beyond looking for regulations to reduce. His hiring tax credits are short term, business look longer that that when planning so a short term deal will not do much. This is a smaller version of the 1 trillion dollar stimulus that we had to pass immediatly to keep unemployment under 8%. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice well, we just cant afford to let that happen.

I am still learing more about the plan but there is some trickery going on here with social security. Obama wants to cut taxes going to social secutity to the tune of about 400 million. This program is going broke in about 12 years, but there is a slight of hand here, the money for social security which has alwasy been a stand alone program is going to be replaced (Paid for ) with money from the general fund, which is 1.4 trillion in the hole. So the bill is not paid for, it will increase our debt, and it will change the way social security is paid for. This is the part I am trying to figure out. What is the gain for the left in moving social security funding into the general fund? Can they then say it now is a general fund item so it does not go broke? Can they say republicans are cutting Social security when they try to cut the general fund? I smell a rat. Something is going down here.

Good debate last night...who do yall think won and lost?

eric lavine wrote: Dave, you made the statement that Walmart saves each family 2 grand a year, I price shop when i purchase not necessarily buying the cheapest thing I find, but, for instance the Kitchen Aid blender, 189.00 bucks everywhere, online, target, home depot and yes Walmart too. The thing about Walmart is they will go to a supplier and tell the supplier "this is what we will pay" or it wont go on our shelves, they strong arm and have the power to strong arm, but also purchasing on volume lets say writing a PO for 10,000 of these units, I would bet and I know pricing that at the end of the day they pay 40 bucks apiece for these, I rather see a mom and pop shop get the money, phuck Walmart, their prices are the same as everyone else, its their profit margins you are failing to see

Eric, You are correct that the prices are often the same, they all price check and match the competition. What you are not seeing is that walmart is setting the price that the rest follow, like I said you do not have to shop at walmart to save the two grand, but you should thank them for it. Walmart is the best at controlling costs, so they have the highest profit margin. That is their plan, they profit and expand pushing out the competition that does not do it as well as they do. First the mom and pops, then Kmart, Target is in their sights now. I am not saying it is nice, but it is Darwins theory put into practice in the business world, the strongest survive to reproduce, the weak and the sick get eaten. Its a jungle out there.

you must of pulled that Darwin theory out of a Monopoly box, sure does sound like the directions on how to play that game.

Obama is running scared, he launched his snitch site again.

Squeal on Conservatives

eric lavine wrote: ... for a dollar less, I gotta find a parking spot, walk in search for the bike section because the special ed, (only because you can pay them less and in no way is pun uintended,to hopefully point me in the right direction, find a cheap version of a real innertube, go to the 85 checkouts with 2 open, wait behind 10 fatasses loading up on frozen pizza's, with the foodstamp card, passing the help wanted sign which they dont notice, and pay for my tube, time elapsed.....lunch is over, I saved a fcn dolar....

Sounds like we've been to the same Walmart.

OverMyHead wrote: what does it take to convince people that keynesian economics does not work?

Ever hear of the new deal? What is your interpretation of how we got out of the great depression?

eric lavine wrote: im going to pony up for an American car

Are there even any cars left that are all American? I don't think so, at least I'm not aware of any. Even the Ford F150 is only 55% American made. Let's look at Toyota Camry, it takes 6,000 American Workers to build the Camry and only 2,250 to build the Ford escape. 80% of the parts in a Toyota Camry are American made while only 65% of the Escape are American. So in all actuality, there are "import" cars that are more American made than "American" cars. Damn shame really.

phospher wrote: OverMyHead wrote: what does it take to convince people that keynesian economics does not work? Ever hear of the new deal? What is your interpretation of how we got out of the great depression?

Phil it would be really cool if we could go back and see what would happen with supply side econmics and put the argument to rest once and for all. Economist argue both sides and many believe the depression was prolonged by the new deal, and only ended with war production for world war two. It took till the early 50's to get the standard of living back to what it was in the 20's. The new deal certainly helped those that were in the program but those not may have suffered much longer than they needed to. I do prefer work projects to unemployment. At least the individual gets to perform something for the pay and the country got some cool infrastructure. The new deal startred four years into the depression and the depression lasted another 6 years. In comparrison Regan turned Carters disasterous keyensian economy around lowering unemployment from 10.4 to 8 percent in a three years and after his 8 years created 21 million new jobs and his ending unemployment rate was just 5.4 percent. Obamas plan is leading us to a second dip recession.
Keyensians often site GDP increases as proof of results, but GDP includes government spending so of course it will increase when governmnet wrestless money out of the private sector. When GPP is looked at (Gross Private) there is actually a historic decrease with keyesian policies.

A simple analogy is if you have two guys in line at the grocery store, one with 75 cents to spend and one with a $1.25. The grocery would net 2.00. If the government comes in to balance the system, they will take 20 cents to administrate redistributing the money, leaving each person with 90 cents, and the grocery with only 1.80. The guy getting an extra 15 cents reward that he did not earn will never complain, but the grocery store and the wealthier customer have both been punished for the success of the wealthier person.

Another way to look at is to assign the us private economy at a given point in time the value of 100 units, over the corse of a year the govenment extracts 19 percent to use for services (19 units). The private economy then would need to produce 19 new units to stay even. For the economy to grow it need to produce more than 19 units. Lets say government stays out of the way and the private economy grows 29 units, minus the governments 19 the economy is now at 110 units. The government now can comfortably grow by 19% of the 10 extra units (1.9 units). If the economy is stagnent and only producing the 19 units, and the government wants to stimulate it by spending, it takes out maybe 23 units instead of 19. The private sector now is down to 96 units (giving it less resources to use for growth.) so the next year the governments is basing its percentage on 96 units instead of 100 and has less to collect, or must spend at a deficit.

Did that make sense?

davidg wrote: On the USPS....I honestly don't know how they are set up or structured, but I do know they come to the Feds asking for bailouts on a routine basis, just as Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac do. Hmmmm! See a trend developing here?? Government entities=lose money>>>need bailouts.

Don't forget about the government run / owned economic powerhouse AMTRAK.

Steve, im taking advantage of my own tax credits lol, I need some good paying work,
If we we woke up and decided to buy an American car the power would be put back into our hands and we would call the shots, just about everyone i know (older) had something to do with the auto industry at one time, whether it was a supplier, assembly, its a tough argument that the nips build their cars right here in the cornfields of America, To me its just a way of putting the unemployed to work in the depressed areas of this country and to appease the general public in to thinking the cars are built here,
smoke would blow from the stacks at the steel yards, the diners would re-appear, ghost towns would come to life again, really, Back track the history of the big three and see how it helped the economy.
really, really think about the end result if everyone woke one day and said thats it, there is some intelligence here, WHAT would happen?

Anyone following the Solyndra fiasco? As much as I like to see the Obama administration squirm, it is hard to enjoy knowing it was done with our money. If this was a republican administration wouldnt this be "Solyndragate" by now?

Eric, what was your first impression of our current president?

I don't see one person coming forward that gives me any confidence in our government getting us out of this mess.