Election 2012 Is Comming

Critter, my advise, dont wear any....
I know its hard and, Im not on the pulpit preaching, im just voicing my opinion on what I think is wrong with the economy, and 18 pages without a strong argument against it, I feel like ive been thru enough economy cycles enough to at least speculate a problem. its proven that thru lets say New Balance tennis shoes that we still can be competative, but because of a 20% tariff there is no way that can compete. I think it would be a joint venture between the consumer and the government, A company is geared to what it produces, built to a point to where the overhead will be eye for an eye, as with the US car companies if they are selling and the sales drop in half, you have to do a few things, cut the workforce or raise the price of the cars....overhead is pretty much a fixed price, buildings, loans etc.
Now the Chinese are a point to sustaine you have to sell this many products or the identical thing will happen,
I really hate when someone says to me they are made right here, they are assembled here, What American made means is you take a piece of iron ore, forge that into steel, put that on a truck, send it off to a casting plant or a stamping plant and the end result is a piece of transportation. These fcn Kia's are taking over, the payments will last longer than the car, its a flooded market.
Im merely saying is make it a level playing field, the consumer creates the supply and the demand, in the Grand scheme of things what would happen if we woke up on Monday morning and said thats it, American across the board....I really think the ball would start rolling again...there is no way logically that we can sustaine for 10 more years on this path, we dont have enough products in hand that carry a large price tag, the last 20 years of economy were all on paper, we loaned ourselves into a corner and its time to pay the piper

phospher wrote: So you agree with Herman Cain when he says, "If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself." Do you really honestly think that EVERYONE can start business and EVERYONE can be rich? The idea that everyone can be rich is crazy. Rich people need poor people to work for them. And these people wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for all the government services provided to them roads, schools, police, etc. So to think that they have achieved all this on their own is a fallacy. Furthermore, people we like to call heroes, our military personal, policemen, firefighters, and teachers will never be rich cause we pay most of them like crap! They are honorable jobs but they will never get rich off them. Not to mention all the monopolies that new businesses don't stand a chance against. And you haven't provided any ideas other than turning us into an American China.

Phil, I Have no ellusion that "everyone" will get rich. Some dont have the drive, and some dont have the guts to leave their secure little worlds where someone else determines thier fates. I do believe that "anyone" has the opportunity to become rich if they choose that path. Herman cain is a great exmple, He was a poor black kid, his dad a chaufeur, and his mom a maid if I remember correctly, he worked hard and made himself into a succesful business person and presidential candidate. this can happen under a government based on liberty. So I do believe what Cain says because he speeks from experience.

I used to be one of those underpaid heroes, I was a 911 paramedic for 25 years. Guess what, I knew I would never make more than 60 mgrand a year working 24 hour shifts and 56 hour average weeks. It was my choice, I did it becasuse I loved the job, Lots of others love it to, so supply and demand determines what the job is worth. People were waiting in line for my job when I left. I choose to do the job I loved, I choose to help people rather than get rich.I would not change that.

A little test, name the only monopoly on this list, Walmart, Shell oil, Galaxo, Apple, Microsoft, The federal government.

OverMyHead wrote: Eric, Any one of the 15,000 can leave and start their own business anytime they want to, then they can be the CEO.We all make choices. You guys can keep your heads in the sand if you want, but business is leaving, taking jobs with them, we hate these businesses, the countries that get the jobs love them. You do the math.

So you agree with Herman Cain when he says, "If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself." Do you really honestly think that EVERYONE can start business and EVERYONE can be rich? The idea that everyone can be rich is crazy. Rich people need poor people to work for them. And these people wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for all the government services provided to them roads, schools, police, etc. So to think that they have achieved all this on their own is a fallacy. Furthermore, people we like to call heroes, our military personal, policemen, firefighters, and teachers will never be rich cause we pay most of them like crap! They are honorable jobs but they will never get rich off them. Not to mention all the monopolies that new businesses don't stand a chance against.

And you haven't provided any ideas other than turning us into an American China.

One thing that I do see happening and it will be an issue in the future is the organizing of the Chinese employee/worker, its starting to drive the wage up Circa, USA 1975,
thats a good thing, I dont know if it will go as far as union organazation, but... it could happen, maybe they will shoot themselves in the foot.
one mis-understanding that I dont think Dave can see is a company that employs 15,000, its not the 15,000 looking at the bottom line and wanting to profit, the group merely wants a decent wage and to survive, its the 15 on the board calling the shots, trying to appease the stockholder, a very small but greedy group, the ones who get the large bonuses, it could be a 5 second decision to put 15,000 out of work, the average CEO looks at its workers as a necessary evil, its really ashame that those are the thoughts of these guys...

OverMyHead wrote: Phil you still dont get it, I do not want our businesses to go off shore, but they are. Business leaving is not the disease, it is a symptom. The disease is the increasingly difficult and often hostile business environment we are creating in this country. Business is being driven off shore, and then we demonize them for doing what we caused them to do.

Bull. There will always be cheaper places for US companies to offshore their work to. If business is only interested in making as much money as possible then they will continue to outsource their work. If they do decide to keep their business here, we will turn into China with employers continuing to cut benefits, salaries, etc. and the inequality gap will continue to soar.

You said it yourself, businesses are in business to make MONEY. And that is what most of them care about MONEY! Money at all costs!

And don't tell me about demonizing companies when most all large companies executive salaries are millions and millions of dollars.
Buy anything made in America lately?

Hollywood wrote: 18 pages later and I still don't know what Comming means...

Eric, Now we are building an analogy, You might have a tree for "eating apples" your neighbors might be for "baking" no need for you to both grow two trees when you cna grow the one you are good at and trade back and forth. But you must take care of your tree, if not there are two choices, let it wither and die, or transplant it somewhere where it can grow and produce with good care. Either way you end up without a tree, and nothing to trade with. By the way you cannot demand that the tree grow and produce for youbecause that is what you need, you have see to its needs and nurture it.

OverMyHead wrote: phospher wrote: OverMyHead wrote: Phil, as the post you quoted said, it is not just taxes, the whole package must be evaluated. Please explain to me why in a free country there would be a "Very,very big price to pay for outsourcing"? It's not taxes and it's not regulation. And to answer your question, which seems obvious to me, to keep American jobs in America! For the people! It's not illegal but it sure as heck is not ethical and will (is!) leading to the downfall of America. What good does it do our country if every company outsources their work to China? It seems a sure path to an Oligarchy. At what point is it about our fellow man the human being? You continue to reinforce the idea that corporate profits are the most important thing in America. And you seem to have no shame in supporting China products. Conservatives sure don't seem to care much about people for being such God loving Christians. WWJD? Outsource to China? Don't think so. Phil your view on business is cute in a nieve sort of way. Buisness is business, Its primary obligation is to make profit. That is not to say that a business owner cant choose to support a country that they love, or create a business that cares for people and its employees, but to ensure a business remains in business it requires profit. We in the US need business to provide us goods and services, employee our citizens and fund our government. Business needs a environment that supports its operations (Infrastructure, political and economic stability, pro-business regulation, and operating costs including taxes,regulation, and wages that allow them to be competitive. Business can choose anyplace in the world that they feel best fits their needs. They can be as loyal or disloyal to a given country as they feel fit, certainly if a country demonizes its business owners and the businesses while simultaneously increasing the demands and financial burdens placed on the business I can not blame them for looking elswhere. In todays global economy it is up to a countries government to create an attractive environment in order to keep and attract business. It is up to labor to find ways to support business instead of driving it away. I thought you socialists were all for one world government, and redistributing our wealth and power to the rest of the world, I guess that all goes out the window when it is your job going to some underprivelaged foreigner. I do not support chinas products. I support good quality products at reasonable prices wherever they may come from, If they are made in the US it is a bonus. Since you guys have all the ideas and it is a free country, and it is apparently sooo easy, why dont you just start your own business, pay every employee a hundred grand, full health care, pay the government some extra taxes, and see how long you stay in business. No need to force the rest of us, the world will flock to your door if you pull it off. There is nothing stoping you, put up or shut up I say.

I know how it works.

Again, your post re-affirms your support for the outsourcing of American Jobs. Profits above all! If everyone thinks like you most all of us will be out of our jobs very soon. Like you pointed out, these companies have NO allegiance to the US and only care about profits. Your comments continue to support the race to the bottom. There are model businesses that make a nice profit, pay their employees fair wages, respect the environment, and don't place their profits above all else. You just don't know about them.

Eric, You are onto something here, The money tree is business, and we want and need its apples (jobs and revenue) Now think frome the trees perspective, what is the fertilizer that it reguires to grow and stay healthy?

phospher wrote: OverMyHead wrote: Phil, as the post you quoted said, it is not just taxes, the whole package must be evaluated. Please explain to me why in a free country there would be a "Very,very big price to pay for outsourcing"? It's not taxes and it's not regulation. And to answer your question, which seems obvious to me, to keep American jobs in America! For the people! It's not illegal but it sure as heck is not ethical and will (is!) leading to the downfall of America. What good does it do our country if every company outsources their work to China? It seems a sure path to an Oligarchy. At what point is it about our fellow man the human being? You continue to reinforce the idea that corporate profits are the most important thing in America. And you seem to have no shame in supporting China products. Conservatives sure don't seem to care much about people for being such God loving Christians. WWJD? Outsource to China? Don't think so.

Phil your view on business is cute in a nieve sort of way. Buisness is business, Its primary obligation is to make profit. That is not to say that a business owner cant choose to support a country that they love, or create a business that cares for people and its employees, but to ensure a business remains in business it requires profit. We in the US need business to provide us goods and services, employee our citizens and fund our government. Business needs a environment that supports its operations (Infrastructure, political and economic stability, pro-business regulation, and operating costs including taxes,regulation, and wages that allow them to be competitive. Business can choose anyplace in the world that they feel best fits their needs. They can be as loyal or disloyal to a given country as they feel fit, certainly if a country demonizes its business owners and the businesses while simultaneously increasing the demands and financial burdens placed on the business I can not blame them for looking elswhere. In todays global economy it is up to a countries government to create an attractive environment in order to keep and attract business. It is up to labor to find ways to support business instead of driving it away.

I thought you socialists were all for one world government, and redistributing our wealth and power to the rest of the world, I guess that all goes out the window when it is your job going to some underprivelaged foreigner.

I do not support chinas products. I support good quality products at reasonable prices wherever they may come from, If they are made in the US it is a bonus.

Since you guys have all the ideas and it is a free country, and it is apparently sooo easy, why dont you just start your own business, pay every employee a hundred grand, full health care, pay the government some extra taxes, and see how long you stay in business. No need to force the rest of us, the world will flock to your door if you pull it off. There is nothing stoping you, put up or shut up I say.

critter wrote: phospher wrote: And you seem to have no shame in supporting China products. Conservatives sure don't seem to care much about people for being such God loving Christians. WWJD? Outsource to China? Don't think so. Folks without jobs or income do not look for the Made in USA tag. You look for a garmet or item that you can afford and still be able to stop by the grocery on the way home and pick up something to keep us alive until something comes along. When you decide to live in a global market place, you purchase based on your funds global value.

I agree but perhaps that person shopping for clothes would still have a job if it wasn't outsourced. But nope, gotta increase those profits, they always need a little more...

phospher wrote: skicat2001 wrote: Obama is a socialist. He took over the automobile, mortgage, banking, and health care industries via legislation and regulation. Govt is expected to own 70% up from 19% in 2008. He has got to be stopped, and this has nothing to do with division of one to the other. Socialism sucks, and the harry reids, nancy peloski and obama team need to hit the road.    Cat, hate to break it to you but it was the GOP conservative BUSH who started the bailout of the auto and banking industry. As far as health care, Mitt Romney was the one who had the "model" plan that the Obama administration implemented. What do you think the role of government should be? As much as it was interesting at times to see where people are at with thier thinking on this stuff.. it is down to the same ol same ol arguements with no direct relation to facts or data to back it up and I can get that directly from rush, hannity, boortz, savage, beck, etc. I feel the same way...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I am not talking about bailouts. Talking about the federal goverment impeding the economy in those industrys. To answer your question, VERY LIMITITED!!

OverMyHead wrote: Phil, as the post you quoted said, it is not just taxes, the whole package must be evaluated. Please explain to me why in a free country there would be a "Very,very big price to pay for outsourcing"?

It's not taxes and it's not regulation. And to answer your question, which seems obvious to me, to keep American jobs in America! For the people! It's not illegal but it sure as heck is not ethical and will (is!) leading to the downfall of America. What good does it do our country if every company outsources their work to China? It seems a sure path to an Oligarchy. At what point is it about our fellow man the human being? You continue to reinforce the idea that corporate profits are the most important thing in America. And you seem to have no shame in supporting China products. Conservatives sure don't seem to care much about people for being such God loving Christians. WWJD? Outsource to China? Don't think so.

how many people do you know with a 4 year degree working at Mcdonalds?

but again, we shouldnt over pay them...the day will some when people wont mind working for 10 bucks an hour again
congress just passed free trade deal with South Korea, Columbia and Panama, damn Kia's. there is just so much turmoil in this complex economy that i just keep thinking there is a master plan, these idiots cant be that fcn stupid