Election 2012 Is Comming |
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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Do not sell that 400 million short. Cal can now use it for food stamps, welfare, and to support the illegals that they let use Mexican IDs.
It is not like the savings will be wasted to the Cal folks. I think that they can use all the savings that they can get. It all comes down to the dollar and what it can do for "your" needs. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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You missed the point, they wouldn't need the benefits if they had 3,000 good paying jobs. Outsourcing to foreign countries breeds unemployment that leads to government assistance.
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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Did not miss the point at all John.
Just had a different one. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Another thing you don't seem to understand, Critter. And I'm not picking on you, is that by sending $7,600,000,000 to China to build the bridge, we are losing out on over $2,000,000,000 in state, federal, and sales taxes that would have been paid by the American families who got the jobs, to support our government and country. Great trade off for a savings of $400.000.000 don't you think. Like I said, that money isn't coming back. |
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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I think I understand more than you give credit for....
Maybe you need to start preaching to the unions about the cost of US products as a result of their Pensions and Benefits not to mention their wages. Cal has major problems with a debt that they can no longer ignore. They have to consider all savings to meet their obligations. If the US cost were reduced $400,000,000, the jobs would have stayed here and the taxes would be $1,894,320,000 (using your 26.31%). That would have been a total of $2,294,320,000 savings to Cal. Now that I could have supported..... but not be. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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John, What is your solution? Order people to pay more? Not in a free country! How about taking a real look at why American companies cannot compete and making changes that will keep our jobs here. The economy is changing. We have the left in this country that wants a one world society. They think we use to many of the worlds resources and have to much of the worlds wealth. Take a close look because this is what redistribution looks like. It does not hurt the rich, they have the resources to adapt. It hurts those that work for the rich who are not as adaptable. You cannot love employment and hate employers at the same time and expect to keep employment.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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It's just a matter of not anticipating the total cost of the project. It's epidemic. That, and probably payola.
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marmon77
Senior Member Joined: August-01-2010 Location: Dade City, Fl. Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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The Quote of the Decade: “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” ~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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History of debt ceiling increases:
Obama- 3X, 11.3 t to 14.2 t, 26% Bush 2- 7X, 7.5t to 11.3t, 90% Clinton- 4X, 4.1t to 5.95t, 44% Bush 1- 4X, 2.8t to 4.2t, 48% And the winner is (drum roll please) Reagan- 17X, 9.35b to 2.8 t, 300% Hmm. How about all those Republicans opposing deficit spending? Where have they been? Apparently not in an economics or history classroom! |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Some republicans have been "compromising" with the left and letting spending increase. Conservatives have been complaining about it all along, democrats never seem to concerned with it especially after they are in office.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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I think that we are all in agreement that spending more than you take
in is wrong. That is history. Repubs and Dems were wrong to do it. But to make a statement as Obama did and then just pretend it never happened is the current concern. I guess when you get in the drivers seat, all the guages are now meaningless. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Even with your ridiculous argument of "see what the Democrats made me do" it stands that:
1- Democrats have raised the debt ceiling fewer times and less. 2- Republicans are unable to effectively manage the economy. You can't have it both ways. Facts and statistics are just that, not hyperbole fabricated to influence and control the gullible. |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Actually the presidents does not vote on the debt ceiling, the house originates spending and was democratically controlled through all Regans 8 years.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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So according to this argument Obama really bears no blame at all. After all, we have a Republican House. Your argument reminds me of how one of my many Irish friends described an Irishman; " An Irishman is a person who can argue both sides of an issue, often at the same time" My Irish "brother" O'bama and I will likely not be accused of this! |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Lets see, what was the houses republicans stance on raising the debt limit under Obama? Oh yea they were against it. I remember a cut cap a nd balance bill that they passed, but the democratic senate wont let it see the light of day.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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The Republicans would oppose hugging their mothers on mothers day if Obama suggested it. They can only be judged by their record. They are the ultimate spenders/ debt raisers. The record shows that to, in fact, be true.
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Thus the distinction between republicans and true conservatives. Conservatism is on the rise.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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So are you suggesting that the best solution to our problems is to elect Obama for another 4 years and have the Dems take back the House and Senate? The only way out is to let the Dems solve our problems? |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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I am not trying to be a smart alec, but what is a "true conservative" to you. Many people I talk to seem to have different opinions of what it means. |
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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John, I am starting to get the impression that you are a Democrate...
Am I close ?? I am an Independent in case I was giving you any impression.... Do not like not getting to vote in Primaries but I understand the reasoning. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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I like to think I am an independent too. I believe that Bush 1 was a very good president, but not recognized as such. I believe he was a one term president, to a large extent, due to one statement "read my lips, no new taxes". He had an amazing career in government service, and I hope history is good to him.
I have been VERY unhappy with the party since. I have never voted a straight ticket. I don't have an answer to the problems that face us, but the economy can't be balanced on the backs of the few middle class workers we have left. The US has a history of honoring the commitments it has made, for the most part, and I don't want to see that honorable record ended by not honoring the commitments we made to our retired and disabled citizens, who paid into a system backed by the assets and integrity of the United States. I am proud to pay my taxes to a country that has provided me the opportunity to accumulate more than I had hoped for. I truly believe that opportunity is not free. |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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You are not being a smart Alec that is a good question. To me there are two different aspects to conservatism, fiscal and social, I for the most part stay away from the social issues, because they tend to be no win and very divisive. I would include pro life , pro traditional marriage, and pro abstinence, in with social conservatives, of course many other viewpoints can be rightfully or wrongfully attributed to this group. Conservatives also tend towards founding principles, liberty and personal responsibility. (They believe in the individuals abilities and that it is wrong to take away their opportunity to prove themselves. )Conservatives tend to be religious. On the fiscal side conservatives believe in limited government, (sounds familiar from somewhere) limited spending, and limits on regulating the freedoms of others. They like to give to charity, but by choice, not by decree. They don't like being forced to fund that which they fundamental disagree with. The Republicans are split between conservatives and moderates. Moderates (Also know as big tent republicans and RHINO's Republican in name only's) often claim fiscal conservatism and social moderation, but they tend to be moderate on both, they are quick to compromise on spending giving democrat spending plans majorities even when they shouldn't have them. That is why we end up with deficits. Bush II was a big tent republican, and gave us bailouts and medicare part D. Of course we all human and have our quirks and will do things out of character or have a belief that is contradictory to our general principles. That makes life interesting, but it also means we have to closely watch those in power to make sure they stay true to their promises. Voting records speak stronger than words as both Bush and Obamas campain speeches have shown us. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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John, this assumes that the only way out is spending, cutting spending does not cost the middle class. I agree we need to honor our commitments, but that does not mean we still need to keep making new commitments. We cannot afford what we are doing, so just like a family or a business the government needs to stop doing things it cannot afford, that is tough to go through, but necessary at this point. we need a leader who can sell the concept of responsibility. the democrat party seem to offer one answer. when times are good we need to "share" the wealth, which means the rich give to everyone else, when times are tight we need to "share" the burden which means the rich give to everyone else. whe times are good we need to take the opportunity to spend more, but when times are tough we need to spend more to stimulate the economy. The spending just has to end. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Thank you for your opinion Overmyhead.
As I have said before, I normally avoid political discussions. This is the only site where I have seen it done with respect. Must be a CC thing. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Hey Dave,
Sweet boat, nice lake. The first Mustang I looked at was in Minnetonka. It was a nice 65 one owner, but the stringers were bad. The owner, John, had a nice shack on the lake and he gave me a 2 hour ride in it even after I said I wasn't interested. It was priceed a little high and I didn't want a project. The lake ride was really fun and the Mustang ran great. I considered a 2001, but it is a little too big for my tow car and would also be marginal on my shore station. My neighbor has one that she bought new when husband died in the 80s and it still looks like new. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Dave, I gotta ask, when you go to the booth, do you vote just based on the "R" button across the board?"
the bridge is a perfect example of why we are falling on our asses, you think those nip workers put their paychecks in Bank USA, fck they are probably shacked up, 8 to a room in Cali somewhere, eating rice and creating that sucking sound once again. once again you have to realize the job loss from the beginning to the end of the entire process, it starts in the ore mines, and ends on the last ribbon cutting when that sub-par bridge opens, once that money leaves here its gone, it doesnt re-circulate, however you spin it, that bridge, cost more than it ever would being done by a union worker....I guareen***************inteeya that when that bridge has a defect, if it ever does, the US government will be liable. I really dont trust those nip bastards, I trust our government moreso than them, What the hell was Arnie thinkin? you got people that cant pay their mortgage and he gives the work away, WTF is wrong with him, those American workers purchase cars, homes, food, pay taxes and i would bet that those nip workers dont have to pay one dime in federal taxes. this is the *************** you have to decipher and break down when you baffle the average American that you saved the state a couple of bucks |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Thanks for the boat comment. tTere are some great people in Minnesota, the hospitality does not surprise me. Keep an eye on the nieghbors boat, that sounds like a good one to pick up,(or pick up the husbandless neighbor and get the boat in the deal ) either way it would be a good excuse to upgrade your tow vehicle! |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Takes 2 seconds to vote... every yr!! |
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Eric, I do not vote strait Republican, but my ideals tend to run pretty close to that. I just meet a local city council candidiate who is an independant, but she is a business owner, and I liked her ideas, so she will likely get my vote. I opt not to vote in contests that I have not had time to reseach, things like the local watershed district and some judges, I cannot keep up with, I would rather stay out than make and uneducated judgment.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Eric, as far as the bridge in Califoria, You are looking at a potential version of the future. It will start in the cash strapped states where dollars will become the only consideration. California is proof that you cannot afford everything, and when you have spent more than you can afford somehting will have to give. It would also be smart to look at this future from a business viewpoint. You are correct that it is bad for this country when we cannot be competitive for our own business. We have to look at where our companies loose out in the process, is it profit? costs of labor? supplies? regulation? taxes? Efficiency/productivity? It likely is a combination of nearly all of these. We have to realise we are in a new economy and things have to change. It is good for American companies to loose a big one and be forced to figure out they need to be more competitive, the same goes for our labor, It would be far better for 3000 workers to be employed at a little lower rate than be sitting on unemployment.Unemployment pays 70% of average wages, would it not be better for everyone to have those workers working and paying taxes at 70 % of thir previouse wage, than having business paying them through unemployment rates. It would be far better for our government to take a smaller cut of taxes on the project than get nothing at all. Everyone must share the burden, and that does not mean just the rich.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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