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Cam selection and install

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TRBenj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2006 at 9:07am
Bill, I bought the springs/locks/retainers from the same company that's doing my cam (Cam Research) so I think Im ok there. Right now I am leaning towards not converting to stud mounted roller rockers and putting the money towards gas! With the next rebuild I will go all out.

I only plan to run 5000-5200 RPM at the most, so the upgrade isnt necessary anyways. Ill buy a $10 shim kit and hope that I can reuse my pushrods.

I'll have to look into gasket-matching the exhaust manifolds, I know theyre a major restriction. Sounds like a good winter project that will hold me over until I can afford those HiTek headers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim_In_Houston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2006 at 11:36pm
I'm with Jbear. Reading this thread awakens me to the fact that there may be things I know very little about - I guess I just thought I knew something. It sure makes an interesting read though. In fact, I'm printing it out now so I can carry it into the john with me.

Kudo's guys, you can't go wrong by making 'em go fast. (You can quote me on that.)
Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-17-2006 at 1:20am
First J_I_H post in quite-a-while. Glad to see it. I was gettin' worried about ya.

Only way I know how to go faster is to push down the throttle, but I do like to read these guys!


john
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AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS-201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-17-2006 at 6:45am
I like the pedastal rollers because when preloaded properly assures you consitant adjustment. Why, because however the seats are ground, the heads are milled it will show up when preloaded. Remember there are go and no go tolerances when produced. I can turn my engine 7400 on nitrous and they work just fine. The heads have oval exhaust ports and the exhaust manifolds have rectangular just for a stater. If you look at the manifold flanges they are white to remind you of the heat there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS-201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2006 at 5:57am
Another good idea, if you can find a carb with annular discharges. They produce great acceleration and tough top end. PCM used used the 4010 Holley however because they couldn't solve a simple problem they scraped all of them..
However they are still used today on the drag strip. It was made in 600 and 750 cfm. A dual plane manifold uses only one half of the carb, ex a 600 only 300 goes to each bank. If you notch the divider you can get more dense charge. On the other hand a open plenum does just the opposite. Also float levels are very critical on holleys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2006 at 8:39pm
No results to report yet, but I am making progress! I took a break from my floor project, enlisting the help of my dad and a friend with much more experience than me to help with my motor. This afternoon we broke down the motor and installed the cam. Tomorrow we'll get it degreed and get it all bolted back together.



Intake manifold comparison: stock iron on the left, Weiand Stealth in the middle, Edelbrock Performer on the right.


You can see the difference in height from this shot. The Performer is about 1.5" taller than stock, the Stealth another .5 or so taller still. The Stealth will be VERY close to fitting under my motor box- but a shorter flame arrestor may still be necessary. Shot from the rear: stock on right, Stealth in the middle, Performer on the left.



GT40p's are back from the machine shop, ready to be installed!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-23-2006 at 8:45pm
Well, its all back together... almost. I need a longer fuel line and throttle bracket due to the taller manifold. Just a few minor things and it should be ready for the water. I measured the motorbox and it looks like the existing flame arrestor may clear the motorbox by 1/4".



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-23-2006 at 9:24pm
Looks great. The spacer with that tall a manifold may have no effect. Newer Marine carbs have the PVC port on them now. I would can the spacer before getting a scrunched flame arrestor, if it doesn't fit. Perhaps thats already your plan.

Can't wait to hear about it running...
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS-201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-24-2006 at 5:48am
Looks great, a tip, Ford heads have a problem of lifting. Now with being said this can be from high compression or even too much water pressure.
I would suggest that you have the heads milled for ringed gaskets. This will eliminate lifting of the heads and or blowing gaskets. Remember Ford heads only have a three bolt pattern.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-24-2006 at 8:23am
Bill don't quit understand what you are saying and the lifting issue????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-24-2006 at 2:56pm
Bill, Im not familiar with the lifting issue. Ive done a lot of reading on Ford heads and this is the first Ive heard of it. Ive got new ARP head bolts, torqued to spec.

Gottaski, I cant wait to get it running either. The plan is sometime next week. For now, I dont plan on getting a new carb @ $500+, so a shorter flame arrestor is the way Ill be going, if necessary. I think I could go with a larger (diameter) filter element without impacting clearance though- with the slight angle of the manifold my carb is mounted almost perfectly level.

Can I get a 3/8" steel fuel line from any autoparts store? A friend has the tool to make the flares, and possibly a bender. I just need ~26" of line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-24-2006 at 3:28pm
Understand. However watch how the choke horn is obtructed by a low profile SA, low pressure created there can richen the jetting based on RPM (airflow) and give you headaches diagnosing. Use your best judgement after seeing the parts.

After all this trouble it wouuld be a shame if it couldn't breathe.
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-24-2006 at 5:24pm
Youre right, it would be a shame to choke the motor right off the bat- and Im well aware that it could happen! Once I get the motor cover installed and know exactly how much room I have to work with, Ill probably pick out something in a larger diameter to try and increase airflow.

Any tips on where to find the solid steel fuel line? Is that a standard item?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-24-2006 at 5:32pm
you can get the line from any auto parts store, it's the same as brake line or fuel line that they would use in a car just get the correct diameter for your application
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-24-2006 at 5:48pm
Thanks '79. I know its 3/8" OD, I need ~26".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS-201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2006 at 5:43am
It's been an issue for years, especially when raising the compression. If you have the heads surfaced every 7 thousands will up the CC and you definitely will need shims for preload and valve clearance. Most marine Windsor's have 15-19 deck clearance.
Just a little tibit been there done it. Have fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2006 at 8:00am
Don't they sell head gaskets in different thickness increaments for this purpose? And do they need an undercut in the heads around the CC to seal with the ring in the head gasket or keep it from blowing out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2006 at 10:24am
Keith,
Consider making this thread required reading for all new members. This is one of the most impressive threads ever on this board.

Thanks to you guys who are so smart about this stuff for sharing with the rest of us. Thanks to TRBenj for taking on this project so we could read about it. Best regards to each of you.
Mullet Free since 93

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2006 at 12:10pm
'79, I got 60" of brake line with the right fittings at Autozone yesterday. Just gotta bend it into shape, cut it and put the flare on the end.

The heads were milled just enough to ensure a nice flat surface- standard practice according to my machine shop. I checked the preload on the lifters and had to use the .030" shims on both intake and exhaust to get within the .020-.040" range.

Bill, Im sure you know this, but the GT40p's have much smaller combustion chambers than the stock 351w heads- I think theyre 59cc (stock). Add the fact that they were milled a touch and theyre even smaller, so my compression ratio will be quite a bit higher than stock. I calculated it a while back and think it will be somewhere around 9.5:1. We checked piston-valve clearance without the head gasket and there's plenty of room there.

The Dude, Im glad you enjoyed this thread. Im not an expert by any means, so I appreciate everyones input here. Its been fun so far, but I cant wait to get on the water!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2006 at 12:22pm
stock are 69cc, gt-40 are 64cc and D0OE are 58.9cc some of the gt-40's maybe 62cc but I'm pretty sure they are 64's need the casting numbers to be sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2006 at 12:35pm
79, not sure if youre disagreeing with me or not, but (as you may know) the GT40p's are quite different from the regular GT40's. Theres a great article here that highlights all the differences, including the 59cc combustion chambers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2006 at 3:08pm
59-61 are the factory tolerances, as cast usually 59.5, with spark plug bump machined back for larger valves and a little cleanup I got about 61ccs of clay into mine but I wasnt excessively careful about the measurement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS-201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-26-2006 at 5:36am
If you search around for heads, Edelbrock,etc you will see that ring cut heads are available. They use an special wire gasket and last for years, no leaks. I don.t think oversize gaskets are available for 351, however I stand to be corrected. The marine 351 have again about 15-19 deck clearance, why change the CC. The GT 40 heads are much better than their counterparts, many changes, however they too will lift when squeezing more CC. You are on the money the compression will be about 9-5-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-26-2006 at 10:02am
the only time I have ever seen a head gasket blow because of a head "lifting" off the block was in supercharged applications. Never(high compression or not) in naturally aspirated applications and I have owned many small block Fords, boats and cars.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-26-2006 at 11:39pm
I read your artical and it seems they say compared to the 59cc's and don't say they are 59??? there is a big difference between the p's and 40's but there is a big difference between the 59's and power heads with the 1.90/1.60 valves TTTTOOOOOOO, and some porting, little polishing then your playing with the big dogs and the bigger numbers on the chart you reference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2006 at 6:39am
Ya, supercharge or too much nitrous. Just being in the 9.s alone shouldn't warrant o-ring heads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2006 at 4:23pm
'79, by "power heads" are you referring to the '69-70 351w heads?

For those of you who have upgraded their intake manifolds: what have you done to relocate the throttle bracket?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS-201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2006 at 7:21am
The quote was leaking gaskets , not necessarily blown head gaskets.There are more reasons than supercharging or nitrous to lift the heads on 351 blocks. I have seen dozens of Windsor's roll thru the shops with leaking gaskets, older and the new. A Ford speed shop would advise you of this.
I am aware of the newer heads as I run them myself. The information was give for general Tibet.
Too bad, however boats,cars, trucks there is a difference of factors. When you take a compression test and get big numbers you will see what I mean. Have fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-01-2006 at 12:08am
In case anyone wants to see what I did to relocate the throttle bracket, here's a pic. It became very easy once I had the motor in front of me. Everything is all back together (on the motor, anyway) with the exception of the fuel line and alternator. Once I get my end flared I can tie everything up. Water test should be tomorrow... hopefully it all comes together!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-01-2006 at 8:07am
Your thinking that is going to fit under the stock engine cover?

Looks real nice but that carb is really up there between that intake and the spacer.

Very interested to hear how she runs...
Cheers,
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