23 Fish Nautique Outboard Conversion |
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Capefisherman
Newbie Joined: August-28-2012 Location: Cape Coral Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: August-28-2012 at 6:25pm |
Hi Guys,
I'm Troy. I am new here to CCF. I have owned a 1979 23' FN for almost 2 years now. She is a stock 351 PCM boat but I am thinking about converting her to an outboard on a bracket. I have read some threads and have seen some nice restorations on here. I am most interested at this point in comparing some performance/economy data and any opinion of how the ride and handling was affected by anyone with experience on one of these. Thanks. |
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1979 23' Fish Nautique
2010 Custom Gheenoe |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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There's at least one Fish Nautique out there that someone converted to a modern 6.0 Chevy LS Motor, ZR series in PCM speak.
It is still an inboard though. I'm assuming you are looking for an improvement in power and performance? My guess would be that you could get more power for less money by staying inboard, unless you had a line on some good used outboards. That said, there are probably many good used fishing boats out there that already have outboard power. |
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nautique frk
Platinum Member Joined: February-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1784 |
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Troy, welcome to the site ! Your boat looks nice post some more pics
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Seems to me the boat would become more...ordinary and require a lot of coin.
It could be awesome done right, but we're short on data. Short of technical information, I guess we're also curious of your prime motivation. Is it reliability, economy, shallow water? |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Capefisherman
Newbie Joined: August-28-2012 Location: Cape Coral Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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More power and performance would be nice, but I am also looking to decrease my draft. I love the rough water handling of my boat but I am really limited in and nearshore. I have been looking at the 23 Dorado type boats with the porta bracket, I know mine would not run that skinny but she would be better in the slop. I saw a FN for sale with a 250 etec the ad claimed 50 mph, I'm curious if that's possible. I would be thrilled with 35-40 cruise, 3 mpg and 24" draft? I fell in love with the FN 30 years ago I don't know of a hull with better lines for less than $50-60K. I'm thinking I can do the upfit for $30-35K I can't find anything I like better under $60K.
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1979 23' Fish Nautique
2010 Custom Gheenoe |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Only other way to seriously decrease draft was the one with twin 302's, but still cant tilt up, brail gets exspensive. I guess i'm through trying to dismiss it. Soemone would need to examine the stern and see if it can handle the thrust as i,s or need to engineer and build a way to transmit some thrust and stress down to the stringers. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Well, if you go the inboard re-powering route, be sure to give Jody at Florida Inboards a call. I know he had a monster motor set aside for his own Fish Nautique project, but wound up putting the project boat for sale. He may still have that motor, or some other options.
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Capefisherman
Newbie Joined: August-28-2012 Location: Cape Coral Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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It will definitely require a new transom and tying into the stringers. This is my third go round with inboards, this boat is cumbersome to maintain I have to remove six bolts in the t-top and tilt the console just to check the oil! I'm about over it. I wish it were as convenient as the ski models tilt the cover, and it's all right there. I guess I would like it all economy, draft, power, reliability. A greedy bugger, I am. Lol!
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1979 23' Fish Nautique
2010 Custom Gheenoe |
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HatterBee
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2011 Location: Burgaw NC Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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Troy,
I don't want say this is my specialty but it is something I am very familiar with. The major problem with your plan is weight distribution. It can be done but requires a lot of work. When you hang an outboard presumably a 250ish four stroke 30" off the transom you really change the weight distribution of the boat. I have been involved with several of these jobs in some Albemarle's. What I would suggest will be to tear it down and rework your fuel tank to the midline (along the keel) towards the fore end on the boat right under the console. Maybe even add a fresh water tank in there as well. You will have to get some weight in the forward area of the boat for it to ride right the more the better. And yes you will need to beef the transom and tie-in those stringers. The bracketed boats are awesome machines and all the formulas and abemarles I have seen have turned out great when they adjust for the weight difference, specifically in the jackshaft and straight inboard style boats. Try searching The Hull Truth. There are a lot of guys on that site that specialize in these conversions and also specialize in fishing boats. I am always on the look out for a good deal on an old Albemarle or FN to do the same type of rebuild, but too many other projects at the time and have not found the right hull yet. Best wishes, let me know if I can assist in any way. Please post more pictures of that boat!! Allen |
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Capefisherman
Newbie Joined: August-28-2012 Location: Cape Coral Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Thanks, Allen. In thinking about the project, I plan to move the fuel to the center bottom of the hull approximately the location of the motor now and move the console forward some. She carries 300lbs. of fuel in the transom now the 250 Optimax is 505lbs. plus the 21" offset of the bracket, I'm thinking double the fuel cap. with the added storage under the console and the move forward we shouldn't be far off.
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1979 23' Fish Nautique
2010 Custom Gheenoe |
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Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2092 |
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27530&title=1977-fish-nautique-free
Had a guy walk into the shop yesterday wanting to do the same thing. Come get the hull you will not have to molest yours! I can sell the rest of the stuff on Evil Paay.... |
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Set yourself down for a long read.Someone on this post said something about installing an OB with a bracket
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HatterBee
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2011 Location: Burgaw NC Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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Jody, as I said in your post I wish I could get down there and get it. But just can't make that trip now. If you still have it when I am in FL again I will pick it up but will probably be next spring. Plus I would need to fins a trailer!!
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jzarski
Senior Member Joined: August-12-2010 Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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I know alot about these boats. I did a full resto on one. I asure you that an outbard conversion would be bad ass..... But for the money that is is going to cost...not sure if its worth what you are going to gain. You will for sure have to redo the trans, not a huge issue but alot of work. I am getting 41MPH at 4400RPM with my fish. At 3100RPM I am at 32MPH. Getting about 2.0-2.5 GPH. Now I did remove a ton of weight for my boat when I did the resto. Might want to think about keeping it inboard just moding it to suit your purpose. You can do alot to that boat for a little money to make it sick. Just my 2 cents. Please fell free to drop me a line if you have any questions.
John |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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And you did a great job on it too John,that and because it's the only Fish thread is why I linked it. How's it been treating you?
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jzarski
Senior Member Joined: August-12-2010 Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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She is doing great. Had a few tranny issues but that ended up being a pump issue. I am still in the process of rigging the upstairs and fixing little things that I didn't like. Thats all petty stuff though. She handles so good in the water. This is my first inboard so I think I will stick with them for a little while. :)
John |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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John, I sure agree with Gary! |
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Ssmith
Newbie Joined: November-05-2017 Location: Richmond va Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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I’m looking at selling my 1983 Fish natique l. It’s been repowered with a 350 this summer. And has a cobia tower. The wheel was replaced in the spring and the bottom was redone. Along with some other things. Part of me has thought about a conversion to an out board but it’s a great boat as an inboard it just doesn’t work as well for me to be trailering it from Richmond va to the Chesapeake bay. Plus I don’t have as much time as I hoped to fish due to working to much.
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VentureMike
Newbie Joined: August-18-2017 Location: South FL Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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How does it run with the 350? I just purchased a 78 with the 350 and I'm thinking of repowering with a 383 during the restoration.
Thanks |
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Ssmith
Newbie Joined: November-05-2017 Location: Richmond va Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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It runs great no issues getting going and cruises around 30. Plus it sounds damn good.
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VentureMike
Newbie Joined: August-18-2017 Location: South FL Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Are you running the 13X13 prop with the 1:1 trans and what's your top end? I'm just getting ready to begin removing the deck but have been toying with the idea of fixing what i got first to see where and how i can make changes to improve performance and fishability.
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Ssmith
Newbie Joined: November-05-2017 Location: Richmond va Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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I believe it’s 11x13. With 1:1. It tops at about 40 and does great with a load and runs great at a trolling speed and maneuvers great when fighting a fish. It’s not a speed demon but it’s not designed for that either .
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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13" dia. and 11" pitch? It's common to state the dia. first so a 13x11 would be appropriate. |
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Ssmith
Newbie Joined: November-05-2017 Location: Richmond va Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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That’s what I meant. Like I said I don’t remember exactly what it is. I haven’t looked at it since I put it on in last fall.
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VentureMike
Newbie Joined: August-18-2017 Location: South FL Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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My goal is 50 at wot with a 30-35 cruise. Has anyone seen these kind of numbers in a fish?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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What engine(s) are you planning for the repower? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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I don’t think the 23’ Fish hull has been fully characterized for how it responds (speedwise) to more power... but based on what we know about the smaller (19’) vee hull, i don’t think even a fairly well done 383 (400hp+) would get you to 50. But it might get you close (45+). Just my gut feel. |
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VentureMike
Newbie Joined: August-18-2017 Location: South FL Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Thank you for the feedback. Is it mostly hull form that keeps the speed below 50 or a combination of power and prop choice? I've been in touch with a phenomenal engine builder and he said he can achieve 450+ hp out of a 383 so I'm confident in the amount of power available. After that it'd be picking the right prop if course.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
Yes, hull shape/design is the major factor in how fast you can go. I forget the rule of thumb that roughly states the HP gains needed for MPH gains over a given hull design but the ratio is horrendous! The other big problem is getting that big HP to the water via the prop. Joe (joeinny) hopefully can add to this considering what he has gone through and what he continues to go though with BIG HP's and prop shafts and props. At least your Fish has a 1$1/8" shaft giving you some better prop choices but you will still be limited with prop diameter. Yes, steeper pitch on a prop will help but, as the pitch of a prop increases, it's slip increases decreasing it's efficiency. Next time you talk with your engine builder, ask him what RPM he's thinking he'll get the HP. |
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VentureMike
Newbie Joined: August-18-2017 Location: South FL Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Right on. My naval architect is also skeptical about that much hp. I'm also finding that the 71c might not even handle it either which would mean going to the 72c or a zf gear. I'm a boat builder by trade so i have access to lots of information. We were thinking maybe a 13.5X14 but still unsure if that will even hold. I'm not opposed to the 315hp crusader that i can drop in and go either but hey, who doesn't want to go fast. This project has been on my bucket list for a decade now and i finally was able to find a hull in decent shape at a price i couldn't pass on so I'm all in on it now. Just trying to gather data on what has worked from people who have done it. Also... Does anyone know if the boat that got wing tanks and a flat deck ever worked out? His thread stopped right after completion so curious to hear if it was a success or if to much of a change in cg made the boat ride terribly?
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