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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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I wonder if thats why many doctors are considering not taking any more Medicare customers in the future because the governments reimbursement rate is too low?
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Compare the cost the government pays for a service under Medicare to the cost you pay. It is obvious that they are quite good at keeping the cost down.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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John....You will NEVER convince me that the government can bring costs down on anything. I found an article from the San Fransisco Chronicle that should be a good read for you. I assume you will trust what the San Francisco Chronicle reports:). As your report also indicates, one of the key reasons for lower hc costs is the sour economy. Like other things, people are not spending money on current hc needs.
Proof positive sir!! Read on..... The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services recently released their annual report on health care spending in America. And surprise, surprise - spending continues to grow. It amounted to 17.9 percent of the nation's gross domestic product in 2010, or $2.6 trillion. But the annual rate of growth was lower than it had been most of the past 50 years - just 3.9 percent. Naturally, the Obama administration took credit for this sliver of good news. "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, we're keeping costs down and making health care more affordable," wrote Nancy-Ann DeParle, deputy chief of staff for policy, on the official White House Blog. But an in-depth look at that report reveals that Obamacare has done little thus far to slow the growth of American health spending. In fact, the federal health care reform effort is already increasing the share of spending shouldered by taxpayers. Worse yet, the implementation of Obamacare has barely begun. As the law's various provisions begin to take effect, the pace of spending will only accelerate. The report was clear about what's restraining health care spending - and it's not Obamacare. As the report put it, the "impact of the recent recession continued to affect the purchasers, providers and sponsors of health care." The agency's researchers went on to cite " ersistently high unemployment, continued loss of private health insurance coverage, and increased cost sharing" as reasons that "led some people to forgo care or seek less costly alternatives." In other words, it's the economy, stupid. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Assertions are meaningless without data to back them up. I chose Forbes Magazine because they are about as right leaning as you get. It is a good source of investment information however. Their position is in line with most, health care costs have slowed their upward march. That they have increased more rapidly is just propaganda. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Well, there you go. I was waiting for a "data dump". Right on time!! Give me some time, and let me get Google going on why Govt HC will cost us more and offer poorer quality. I will provide a data dump too.
I follow Steve Forbes, and I know he is no fan of what the govt is doing. In fact, I saw Forbes speak in Chicago a year or so back. It was a great honor. But, thank you for the data. I will read it and learn what one of Forbes writers has to say. I am very open minded and willing to learn. But, don't expect me to believe everything I read....or hear. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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You need to show sources for the off the wall statements you make. I follow Forbes, do you? Here is an article you should read. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/31/health-care-spending-at-historically-low-growth-rates-the-question-is-why/ Health Care Spending At Historically Low Growth Rates-The Question Is Why? According to a study published today by the Health Research Institute of PwC US, healthcare spending in the United States is expected to continue growing at a historically low rate into 2013, continuing the pattern of slower growth in medical costs the nation has been experiencing since 2009. The question is…why? A recent article by Forbes contributor Sally Pipes, suggesting that Obamacare deserves none of the credit for the improving cost picture in health care, argues that the sole reason for this good news rests with the “high-deductible, patient-centric coverage options that give people control over their healthcare dollars and provide a direct financial incentive to conserve care and spend responsibly.” Ms. Pipes is partially correct. However, according to the Health Research Institute report, there is more at work than companies forcing their employees to pick up a larger share of their healthcare costs. While employers passing a larger portion of the premium costs and offering high deductive policies does play a role in the reduced growth, so too are the new models of medical practice that tend to improve efficiency and lower costs of care—methods such as the medical home concept which is a lynchpin of the Affordable Care Act’s cost bending provisions. According to the survey, the price moderation is the combined result of the sluggish economy, increased focus on cost containment by the medical industry (including moving to more efficient medical practice models such as the medical home approach), lower use of services by cost-conscious patients (the high deductible scenario) and progressive efforts by employers to hold down medical expenses by expanding corporate wellness programs and other incentives to keep their employees healthier (also incentivized by Obamacare.) The report reveals some additional good news along with some bad. Savings can be expected to continue when it comes to purchasing prescription drugs as patents for some of our more popular—and expensive—drugs continue to expire, clearing the way for lower-priced generic versions. Additionally, the survey anticipates increased market pressure to reduce medical supply and equipment costs, increased popularity of new methods to delivery primary care, and increased availability of comparative cost information. On the downside, employers are expected to continue to push more of the costs of healthcare benefits onto the shoulders of employees. While this will play a role in reducing day-to-day medical expenditures —as employees avoid spending out-of-pocket to visit the doctor—there is always the concern that delayed medical treatment will result in far more expensive treatment down the road as simple medical ‘fixes’ turn into a full blown medical crisis. ““Slower growth in healthcare costs could be the ‘new normal,’” said Michael Thompson, principal, human resource services, PwC. “We’re seeing long-term trends that could keep cost increases in check. As employers shift expenses to their employees, for example, these workers are pursuing lower-cost alternatives. Even as the economy strengthens, changes in behavior by employers and consumers may help limit medical growth.” Additional highlights of the survey of 1400 employers in 34 industries reveal- • Nearly six in ten employers (57 percent) are considering increasing employee contributions to health plans. • Half of employers are considering increasing cost-sharing through plan design, such as higher deductibles. The average emergency room co-pay, for example, is now $125 or more. • More than half of employers are considering raising employee prescription drug plan costs. • Average enrollment in high deductible plans coupled with a Health Reimbursement Account has increased to 43.2 percent in 2012 from 34.2 percent in 2010. • Nearly three quarters of employers (72 percent) offer wellness programs, and half of those say they are considering expanding those programs next year. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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John......Yes, its good the market has come back. However, I will argue til the cows come home that it was the housing crisis that caused the economic collapse in 2008-2009. Do you think that it collapsed just cause a guy named W was residing in the White House? What caused the housing crisis? How about liberal policies that mandated that if you had a warm breath, you should own a home. Way too many people got loans that shouldn't have and couldn't pay their mortgages. Housing collapses taking the whole economy with it. I think we could have avoided the whole mess had government not interferred with the market. Just because the collapse happened at the tail end of Bush' term does not mean he or the Republicans caused it. I would argue that the liberals caused it and it was a time bomb waiting to go off. So, what will happen to our healthcare markets longer term with all the government meddling in it?? It was supposed to bring costs down, and from all the evidence out there so far, hc costs are going up even faster now. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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FAST FORWARD!
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Business and free enterprise drives the US economy. Sorry for the douple postt..
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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DJIA when Bush took office = 10,787 DJIA when Obama took office = 6,763 DJIA today = 13,297 I am retired and live off of the money I have saved and invested. Although market index funds lost about 40% of their value under the Bush / Republican reign of error, they have doubled in less than 4 years under Obama. So you ask how that hope and change thing is working out for me, very well, thank you! It took us a while to climb back up that cliff after the Bush / Republican administration, but we have done it. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Thank God the republicans where IN there to block this stuff. It all got goverment regulations to impede our liberty and freedom. And off course no values. Dont ask dont tell.
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Thank God the republicans where IN there to block this stuff. It all got goverment regulations to impede our liberty and freedom. And off course no values. Do ask dont tell.
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Then why doesn't Obama just circumvent Congress like he has grown fond of doing and pass these things by Executive Order? He got the Immigration thing partially done that way. |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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The funny part is the lefies think he actaully has done a good job. Stupidest president ever. He said if he gets re elected, more tax hikes on the rich, spend more money on green energy , and open them borders up. It dont matter people got em figured out. There is no way he will again. God bless America!! |
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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Well, I FINALLY got an answer to Obama's high gas price concerns when he was a mere candidate.
Here is what Clinton said at the DNC (and Obama agreed in his speach) .... PRESIDENT CLINTON: Now, the agreement the administration made with the management, labor and environmental groups to double car mileage, that was a good deal too. It will cut your gas prices in half, your gas bill. No matter what the price is, if you double the mileage of your car, your bill will be half what it would have been. Sooooo, When I fill up my one ton pickup truck at a cost of around $150.00, I should take the $150.00 I am going to SAVE and put it in the bank!!! WOW, I wish I had a BIGGER gas tank! Think of how much I could be saving then!! Heck, maybe I could retire if I got more trucks with bigger tanks so I could save even more!!?!!!!! |
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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You may think my loyalty comes from what I hear on TV or read but the reality of it is life experience. My family has been in the healthcare buisness for over 50 years and for me times have been better when republican president was in office then when a democrat was. Things were ok with Clinton but I feel that was because Newt got him and congress together, and that was why I really wanted Newt as a canidate. I had thought that things with Obama were also gonna be ok because of what I heard from him in 08. His term has not been good and quite frankly he scares me. He can't get the houses congress together. All his other promises are just bull*************** until he can. I can't predict good or bad how life will be with Romney but I don't see anything changing if Obama wins. |
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ononewheel
Gold Member Joined: June-21-2011 Location: B Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Right over the cliff!! |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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I saw a president last night who is still pushing hope and change, but now he wants us to hope he has changed. He wants us to believe that even though his policies have produced 43 consecutive months of unemployment over 8% and he has not adjusted his course except to double down on what has not worked, he wants us to somehow believe that his second term will be different even though he is still preaching the same tired solutions. Just more empty promises. He is saying what he should to get what he needs so he can do what he wants.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Which values energized you? |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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FORWARD!
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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im energized after the the dnc lately, sticking to the values...the devil was starting to sneak into my head..
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Okay, how about a little levity to lighten the mood a bit. Here is a cute story about some free kittens one of my friends sent me. There is a moral to the story as well.
A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the sidewalk in front of her home. Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS. Suddenly a line of big black cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a tall, grinning man. "Hi there little girl, I'm President Obama. What do you have in the basket?" he asked. "Kittens," little Suzy said. "How old are they?" asked Obama. Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet." "And what kind of kittens are they?" "Democrats," answered Suzy with a smile. Obama was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens. Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two men agreed that the president should return the next day; and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens. So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the sidewalk with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN. Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Obama got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy. "Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away." "Yes sir," Suzy said. "They're Republicans." Taken by surprise, the president stammered, "But...but...yesterday, you told me they were DEMOCRATS." Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open." |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Billy, If you stand in a place where you view me as left wing and Obama as "my" president, then my hat is off to you sir, you may be my new hero! |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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thateb
Groupie Joined: August-28-2012 Location: Pierre, SD Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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I’m not sure if this will go up since I’m a newbie but like any decent person I’ve been thinking politics lately. It seems to me that there are a few critical flaws in the electoral system today. (Big Surprise) On the presidential level, the Electoral College waters down the voting power of the more populated states and amplifies the voting powers of the sparsely populated states. (The electoral votes of a state equals the number of senators and representatives. Every state has exactly two senators and the number of representatives depends on the population within the state) On the congressional level, (which bugs me the most) the career politicians have manipulated the electoral system to ensure their cushy job security through redistricting. They don’t have to be moderate to appeal to everybody because their district, that they have molded, is comprised of the crazies that they appeal to. And on both levels there is campaign finance. Why cant public campaign financing be required so politicians don’t have to whore themselves out for campaign money? That would also remove advantages that one side might have if that side had a larger source of whore money. And the cost of public campaign financing is paltry compared to the legislative deference that is paid to the monster campaign contributors. (Wallstreet being the most blatant).
Just saying... |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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overhead..... When you reach the age I am, 58, you tire of BS... Be it from you, your buddy or your president......Why not just go away ? This site was started for the transfer of knowlrdge , not the propagation of left wing BS that you spout....... Do you know where I stand NOW ?
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Joe This is exactly why I enjoy the political discussions here. While any one post here can be off the wall, I have more faith in the collective reasoning of this site than any other source. I believe that the discussions here are like putting a finger on the pulse of the nation. This is also a great place to validate or discredit what is being put out there by others. The last thing I want to do is take disinformation from a given source and silently accept it as fact and then vote based on that misinformation like so many other sheep out there are doing. I would not dream of doing a stringer job on my boat without tapping the knowledge of the members of this site. Nor would I ever wish that a stringer thread would just go away. I would ask which is a more life affecting decision, how to do stringers or who leads our country? This is a very important conversation. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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That's exactly what I mean, I don't believe the people on both sides were backed into their conrners so far back then. They're putting party battles before solving serious problems that the county faces. |
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bkhallpass
Grand Poobah Joined: March-29-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4723 |
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Not supported by the facts. This country has been highly divided for nearly 100 years. Popular vote results 1924 Coolidge 54% 1928 Hoover 58% 1932 Roosevelt 57% 1936 Roosevelt 60% 1940 Roosevelt 54% 1944 Roosevelt 53% 1948 Truman 49% 1952 Eisenhower 55% 1956 Eisenhower 57% 1960 Kennedy 49% 1964 Johnson 61% 1968 Nixon 43% 1972 Nixon 60% 1976 Carter 50% 1980 Reagan 50% 1984 Reagan 58% 1988 Bush I 53% 1992 Clinton 43% 1996 Clinton 49% 2000 Bush II 47.87% (Gore got 48.38%) 2004 Bush II 50% 2008 Obama 52% I believe the point Joe in NY is trying to make is that division is not the issue in our country. Extremism is the issue. BKH |
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Livin' the Dream
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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I think it's a sympton of how our country is divided politically and the result of the many mediums people have to be informed. Both sides are plenty guilty. I got to think if our government was as divided back just before WWII as it is today, the country would have been in big trouble.
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