You didn build that !

john b wrote: FORWARD!

Right over the cliff!!

boat dr wrote: No need to ask to whom your vote will go!!!!!!

You may think my loyalty comes from what I hear on TV or read but the reality of it is life experience. My family has been in the healthcare buisness for over 50 years and for me times have been better when republican president was in office then when a democrat was. Things were ok with Clinton but I feel that was because Newt got him and congress together, and that was why I really wanted Newt as a canidate. I had thought that things with Obama were also gonna be ok because of what I heard from him in 08. His term has not been good and quite frankly he scares me. He can't get the houses congress together. All his other promises are just bull*************** until he can. I can't predict good or bad how life will be with Romney but I don't see anything changing if Obama wins.

davidg wrote: john b wrote: FORWARD! Right over the cliff!!

The funny part is the lefies think he actaully has done a good job. Stupidest president ever. He said if he gets re elected, more tax hikes on the rich, spend more money on green energy , and open them borders up.

It dont matter people got em figured out. There is no way he will again. God bless America!!

Thank God the republicans where IN there to block this stuff. It all got goverment regulations to impede our liberty and freedom. And off course no values. Do ask dont tell.

davidg wrote: john b wrote: FORWARD! Right over the cliff!!

DJIA when Bush took office = 10,787
DJIA when Obama took office = 6,763
DJIA today = 13,297
I am retired and live off of the money I have saved and invested. Although market index funds lost about 40% of their value under the Bush / Republican reign of error, they have doubled in less than 4 years under Obama. So you ask how that hope and change thing is working out for me, very well, thank you!
It took us a while to climb back up that cliff after the Bush / Republican administration, but we have done it.

FAST FORWARD!

davidg wrote: john b wrote: davidg wrote: john b wrote: FORWARD! Right over the cliff!! DJIA when Bush took office = 10,787 DJIA when Obama took office = 6,763 DJIA today = 13,297 I am retired and live off of the money I have saved and invested. Although market index funds lost about 40% of their value under the Bush / Republican reign of error, they have doubled in less than 4 years under Obama. So you ask how that hope and change thing is working out for me, very well, thank you! It took us a while to climb back up that cliff after the Bush / Republican administration, but we have done it. John......Yes, its good the market has come back. However, I will argue til the cows come home that it was the housing crisis that caused the economic collapse in 2008-2009. Do you think that it collapsed just cause a guy named W was residing in the White House? What caused the housing crisis? How about liberal policies that mandated that if you had a warm breath, you should own a home. Way too many people got loans that shouldn't have and couldn't pay their mortgages. Housing collapses taking the whole economy with it. I think we could have avoided the whole mess had government not interferred with the market. Just because the collapse happened at the tail end of Bush' term does not mean he or the Republicans caused it. I would argue that the liberals caused it and it was a time bomb waiting to go off. So, what will happen to our healthcare markets longer term with all the government meddling in it?? It was supposed to bring costs down, and from all the evidence out there so far, hc costs are going up even faster now.

You need to show sources for the off the wall statements you make.
I follow Forbes, do you? Here is an article you should read.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/31/health-care-spending-at-historically-low-growth-rates-the-question-is-why/

Health Care Spending At Historically Low Growth Rates-The Question Is Why?
According to a study published today by the Health Research Institute of PwC US, healthcare spending in the United States is expected to continue growing at a historically low rate into 2013, continuing the pattern of slower growth in medical costs the nation has been experiencing since 2009.
The question is…why?
A recent article by Forbes contributor Sally Pipes, suggesting that Obamacare deserves none of the credit for the improving cost picture in health care, argues that the sole reason for this good news rests with the  “high-deductible, patient-centric coverage options that give people control over their healthcare dollars and provide a direct financial incentive to conserve care and spend responsibly.”
Ms. Pipes is partially correct. However, according to the Health Research Institute report, there is more at work than companies forcing their employees to pick up a larger share of their healthcare costs. While employers passing a larger portion of the premium costs and offering high deductive policies does play a role in the reduced growth, so too are the new models of medical practice that tend to improve efficiency and lower costs of care—methods such as the medical home concept which is a lynchpin of the Affordable Care Act’s cost bending provisions.
According to the survey, the price moderation is the combined result of the sluggish economy, increased focus on cost containment by the medical industry (including moving to more efficient medical practice models such as the medical home approach), lower use of services by cost-conscious patients (the high deductible scenario) and progressive efforts by employers to hold down medical expenses by expanding corporate wellness programs and other incentives to keep their employees healthier (also incentivized by Obamacare.)
The report reveals some additional good news along with some bad.
Savings can be expected to continue when it comes to purchasing prescription drugs as patents for some of our more popular—and expensive—drugs continue to expire, clearing the way for lower-priced generic versions. Additionally, the survey anticipates increased market pressure to reduce medical supply and equipment costs, increased popularity of new methods to delivery primary care, and increased availability of comparative cost information.
On the downside, employers are expected to continue to push more of the costs of healthcare benefits onto the shoulders of employees. While this will play a role in reducing day-to-day medical expenditures —as employees avoid spending out-of-pocket to visit the doctor—there is always the concern that delayed medical treatment will result in far more expensive treatment down the road as simple medical ‘fixes’ turn into a full blown medical crisis.
““Slower growth in healthcare costs could be the ‘new normal,’” said Michael Thompson, principal, human resource services, PwC.  “We’re seeing long-term trends that could keep cost increases in check. As employers shift expenses to their employees, for example, these workers are pursuing lower-cost alternatives. Even as the economy strengthens, changes in behavior by employers and consumers may help limit medical growth.”
Additional highlights of the survey of 1400 employers in 34 industries reveal-
•       Nearly six in ten employers (57 percent) are considering increasing employee contributions to health plans.
•       Half of employers are considering increasing cost-sharing through plan design, such as higher deductibles.  The average  emergency room co-pay, for example, is now $125 or more.
•       More than half of employers are considering raising employee prescription drug plan costs.
•       Average enrollment in high deductible plans coupled with a Health Reimbursement Account has increased to 43.2 percent in 2012 from 34.2 percent in 2010.
•       Nearly three quarters of employers (72 percent) offer wellness programs, and half of those say they are considering expanding those programs next year.
 

davidg wrote: Well, there you go. I was waiting for a "data dump". Right on time!! Give me some time, and let me get Google going on why Govt HC will cost us more and offer poorer quality. I will provide a data dump too. I follow Steve Forbes, and I know he is no fan of what the govt is doing. In fact, I saw Forbes speak in Chicago a year or so back. It was a great honor. But, thank you for the data. I will read it and learn what one of Forbes writers has to say. I am very open minded and willing to learn. But, don't expect me to believe everything I read....or hear.

Assertions are meaningless without data to back them up.
I chose Forbes Magazine because they are about as right leaning as you get. It is a good source of investment information however. Their position is in line with most, health care costs have slowed their upward march. That they have increased more rapidly is just propaganda.

Compare the cost the government pays for a service under Medicare to the cost you pay. It is obvious that they are quite good at keeping the cost down.

A good read on doctors opting out of Medicare. A great explanation as to how the govt keeps cost down. They just don't pay the doctors!! Wow, that is easy. I should have thought of that. God forbid you get sick when O-care kicks in fully.

Obamacare vs. Medicare Payments>>>>Doctors Opt Out.

Hey, how about everybody in the US makes exactly the same amount, regardless of education, training, experience, demand of your skill set, etc. Sounds like a socialist utopia.

As Obama would say...."We must level the playing field".

I am glad you are kidding! You are kidding, right?

davidg wrote: Hey, how about everybody in the US makes exactly the same amount, regardless of education, training, experience, demand of your skill set, etc. Sounds like a socialist utopia. As Obama would say...."We must level the playing field". I am glad you are kidding! You are kidding, right?

I'm as serious as a heart attack. I want to follow the lead of the Republican party trying to do exactly that with teachers and public service employees. What makes doctors special?

Sorry for the double post. My phone does that from time to time.

Seth, How many bills that would have benefited the economy have been passed by the house and never made it to the senate floor?

Repeal Obamacare, blocked multiple times.


Balanced budget , blocked

The following are sitting in the senate:
    The REINS Act (H.R. 10) – Pledge to America legislation and a key part of the Republican Plan for America’s Job Creators – requires Congressional approval of any major government regulation.

    The Workforce Democracy & Fairness Act (H.R. 3094) passed last week stops the Obama administration’s National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) from circumventing Congress to allow job-threatening “ambush” union elections.

    The Regulatory Accountability Act (H.R. 3010) and Regulatory Flexibility Improvements Act (H.R. 527) minimize costly red tape and excessive federal restrictions that hurt small businesses.

Entrepreneur Access to Capital Act (H.R. 2930), bipartisan “crowdfunding” jobs bill passed by the House in November, “removes barriers to doing business” for job creators.

    The upcoming Jumpstarting Opportunity with Broadband Spectrum (JOBS) Act would help create jobs, reduce our spending-driven deficit, and bolster emergency response infrastructure.

    Republicans also identified extending the payroll tax break as a potential area of common ground with President Obama’s jobs plan. Republicans believe it must be paid for - without adding to the debt or imposing a job-crushing tax hike on small businesses – so that it does not accelerate Social Security’s looming bankruptcy and do more damage to our economy.


Don't pretend that the left is willing to compromise but not the right.

john b wrote: DJIA when Bush took office = 10,787 DJIA when Obama took office = 6,763 DJIA today = 13,297 I am retired and live off of the money I have saved and invested. Although market index funds lost about 40% of their value under the Bush / Republican reign of error, they have doubled in less than 4 years under Obama. So you ask how that hope and change thing is working out for me, very well, thank you! It took us a while to climb back up that cliff after the Bush / Republican administration, but we have done it.

John, between the stimulus packages and quantitative easing how much money have we thrown into circulation? Trillions. Of course it has to show up somewhere. Problem is we have supplemented your retirement with fake and borrowed money. Can you say "bubble"? Eventually we will have to pay back the borrowed money and suffer the inflation due to printed dollars. Even the CBO warns we are heading for a second dip recession. How happy will you be when the DJIA is back at 7000? Its coming.......

john b wrote:

I'm as serious as a heart attack. I want to follow the lead of the party trying to do exactly that with teachers and public service employees. What makes doctors special?[/QUOTE]

So everyone, under your suggestion no matter what they do for a living gets same pay. Burger flipper, football star, musician, trash man, doctor, etc would be paid the same?

And give them all minimum wage or what pay?

and the government will cap the amount you can make during retirement and investments to the national labor average too? (because it wouldn't be fair you get to make any moree than anyone else)




Welcome to the United Socialist States of America?